Salut Uriel ! ;)
Je souscris totalement à ta remarque, mais ne retranche rien de la mienne concernant le positionnement de LAA.
Je souscris totalement à ta remarque, mais ne retranche rien de la mienne concernant le positionnement de LAA.
Does language define your identity?
Greg,
I saw my name in your post once again, but you are writing in Martian as usual.
I saw my name in your post once again, but you are writing in Martian as usual.
LAA,
He is writing in French - a far cry from Martian - a language we never seen or heard.
Use a translator if you are having trouble. May I recommend babelfish.altavista.com ?
While I see you are displeased at having to read French, you do not have to go around calling it Martian. It is a futile effort and it will not change anything. Greg will continue to write in French or German.
He is writing in French - a far cry from Martian - a language we never seen or heard.
Use a translator if you are having trouble. May I recommend babelfish.altavista.com ?
While I see you are displeased at having to read French, you do not have to go around calling it Martian. It is a futile effort and it will not change anything. Greg will continue to write in French or German.
The martian statement is just a joke, and not meant to be taken literally. Lighten up a bit Tiffany. It is just like one saying, "It's all Greek to me."
Ok, I've lightened up, but really, it's futile. He'll continue to speak French or German, despite your jokes.
I'm liking this anti-spam "filter". Perhaps the next step with be registration!
I'm liking this anti-spam "filter". Perhaps the next step with be registration!
"I'm liking this anti-spam "filter". Perhaps the next step with be registration! "
I doubt it will deter the spammers any, when all they have to do is type in a little magical sentence, like "Alikazam!". User registration will be the first, last, and only method needed to stop spamming and impersonation.
I doubt it will deter the spammers any, when all they have to do is type in a little magical sentence, like "Alikazam!". User registration will be the first, last, and only method needed to stop spamming and impersonation.
"I'm liking this anti-spam "filter". Perhaps the next step with be registration! "
I doubt it will deter the spammers any, when all they have to do is type in a little magical sentence, like "Alikazam!". User registration will be the first, last, and only method needed to stop spamming and impersonation.
I doubt it will deter the spammers any, when all they have to do is type in a little magical sentence, like "Alikazam!". User registration will be the first, last, and only method needed to stop spamming and impersonation.
I'm not saying it will deter spam in the long run (though it certainly will help now), but I see it as a step in the right direction. Onward to registration...
LAA, I've answered you some of your comments from another topic, but they have been deleted. Thgis topic is about identities, so I think that these comments have their place here.
"This is our media's conception of Italy. "
I would like to make some comments about this; I tend to think that US medias don't spread an image of Italy wich is in conexion with reality.
I understand that it is one of the traditional image of italy - an image especially brought by the poor countrymen from the south of Naples who emigrated to USA or France in the 19th and the beguining of the 20th century. This image is linked with the extreme south of Italy (southern from naples), a part of it wich is considered by the other italians themselves as a different place.
Italy has also an very different mediatic image : The international image of ultra-luxury is lamost always often linked with Italy and italian style : Ferrari cars, Lamborghini, Gucci, Versace, Prada, Armani, etc.
Using Italian name gives more "high class" to everything. The culture of "class" and appearance is a very Italian thing, almost never linked to the northern European countries.
German car, for exemple have to reputation of being solid and powerfull, but not styled and fashionned as Italian cars are. When thinking going buying luxury dresses, most people will think to go to Milan, Rome or Paris, but not as much in Berlin.
" Typically, Americans think of Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy as the mediterranean countries, who have historically been poorer and less developed in the last few centuries. "
This image is pretty false. Italy is the world's 6th economy, it has the same level of life (gdp/capita) than UK, France and Germany. Italy is since the post war one of the fourth Main foundator pillar of European economy. Milan and Rome region are two of the richest regions of Europe - it. Due to Franco's dictature Spain with 40 million people only is the 8th, and is growing very fast.
It is true that the extreme south of these countries are more rural less developped than the rest of those countries - but nothern Europe can have also poorer regions (ex. of the ex-East Germany).
the difference of income in Europe is more between the east and the west, than the north and south.
It is true that Spain, Portugal, Greece and in a lesser way Italy have missed the huge industrial developements of the 19th century and stayed as more rural countries. But it is also the case of most of France; the industrial revolution occured at the Belgian borders and in the parisian area - all the rest of the country stayed very rural until the years 1960- Wich was not the case of England, Benelux or Germany.
After the first mid of the 20th century most European countries were very poor, due to the crisis and the two world wars. we began our modernisation in the 60's only.
" The American media portrays France as a ritzy, refined, and very formal culture. Movies that take place in France portray the French as looking like Germans or Englishmen. "
It is interesting how you analize this, because in France when we speak about the stereotype of "refinement" and "formality" we absolutly not link it with northern European cultures. As we saw them (tourists for exemple) Northern European tourists tend to be much more "cool", "sportswear" and unformal than most south Europeans tourists. For the food it is the same, Italian or Spanish food are seen to be much more refined than German, Belgian or english foods.
" Poorer people are exposed to less luxury that can tend to make a person sophisticated, prideful, or appear "snobby". "
Here again, if there is a people in Europe who like to "se la peter" as we say in French they are especially the Italians. We can see this "class and fashion" attitude in a lot of mediterranean countries, especially in the arab part of it, even if most of them are generally poor countries.
" Poor people are less refined and formal, and more focused on the simple pleasures of life, like family, etc"
On the other hand, the scandinavians are the richest Europeans but seem to have a quite simple mentality, efficiant and simple design, rustic food, ecology attitude, link with nature. This stereotype don't appear to be "snobby" in my perception/opinion.
" A people that enjoy Mama Maria's homemade pesto sauce, where everyone is warm, unreserved, emotional, loud, tempermental, etc. "
The stereotype of the "Italian Mamma", the home women who care about plenty of children and stay all day cooking waiting for the husband, is funny because in reality Italy and Spain have the lowest rate of child bith in all Europe.
"This is our media's conception of Italy. "
I would like to make some comments about this; I tend to think that US medias don't spread an image of Italy wich is in conexion with reality.
I understand that it is one of the traditional image of italy - an image especially brought by the poor countrymen from the south of Naples who emigrated to USA or France in the 19th and the beguining of the 20th century. This image is linked with the extreme south of Italy (southern from naples), a part of it wich is considered by the other italians themselves as a different place.
Italy has also an very different mediatic image : The international image of ultra-luxury is lamost always often linked with Italy and italian style : Ferrari cars, Lamborghini, Gucci, Versace, Prada, Armani, etc.
Using Italian name gives more "high class" to everything. The culture of "class" and appearance is a very Italian thing, almost never linked to the northern European countries.
German car, for exemple have to reputation of being solid and powerfull, but not styled and fashionned as Italian cars are. When thinking going buying luxury dresses, most people will think to go to Milan, Rome or Paris, but not as much in Berlin.
" Typically, Americans think of Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Italy as the mediterranean countries, who have historically been poorer and less developed in the last few centuries. "
This image is pretty false. Italy is the world's 6th economy, it has the same level of life (gdp/capita) than UK, France and Germany. Italy is since the post war one of the fourth Main foundator pillar of European economy. Milan and Rome region are two of the richest regions of Europe - it. Due to Franco's dictature Spain with 40 million people only is the 8th, and is growing very fast.
It is true that the extreme south of these countries are more rural less developped than the rest of those countries - but nothern Europe can have also poorer regions (ex. of the ex-East Germany).
the difference of income in Europe is more between the east and the west, than the north and south.
It is true that Spain, Portugal, Greece and in a lesser way Italy have missed the huge industrial developements of the 19th century and stayed as more rural countries. But it is also the case of most of France; the industrial revolution occured at the Belgian borders and in the parisian area - all the rest of the country stayed very rural until the years 1960- Wich was not the case of England, Benelux or Germany.
After the first mid of the 20th century most European countries were very poor, due to the crisis and the two world wars. we began our modernisation in the 60's only.
" The American media portrays France as a ritzy, refined, and very formal culture. Movies that take place in France portray the French as looking like Germans or Englishmen. "
It is interesting how you analize this, because in France when we speak about the stereotype of "refinement" and "formality" we absolutly not link it with northern European cultures. As we saw them (tourists for exemple) Northern European tourists tend to be much more "cool", "sportswear" and unformal than most south Europeans tourists. For the food it is the same, Italian or Spanish food are seen to be much more refined than German, Belgian or english foods.
" Poorer people are exposed to less luxury that can tend to make a person sophisticated, prideful, or appear "snobby". "
Here again, if there is a people in Europe who like to "se la peter" as we say in French they are especially the Italians. We can see this "class and fashion" attitude in a lot of mediterranean countries, especially in the arab part of it, even if most of them are generally poor countries.
" Poor people are less refined and formal, and more focused on the simple pleasures of life, like family, etc"
On the other hand, the scandinavians are the richest Europeans but seem to have a quite simple mentality, efficiant and simple design, rustic food, ecology attitude, link with nature. This stereotype don't appear to be "snobby" in my perception/opinion.
" A people that enjoy Mama Maria's homemade pesto sauce, where everyone is warm, unreserved, emotional, loud, tempermental, etc. "
The stereotype of the "Italian Mamma", the home women who care about plenty of children and stay all day cooking waiting for the husband, is funny because in reality Italy and Spain have the lowest rate of child bith in all Europe.
Fab,
Did you happen to get a chance to read my replies to the above post in the other thread, about misconceptions of Romance speaking countries? They were deleted shortly thereafter, so I don't know if you got a chance to read them.
Did you happen to get a chance to read my replies to the above post in the other thread, about misconceptions of Romance speaking countries? They were deleted shortly thereafter, so I don't know if you got a chance to read them.
NO, no he podido leerlas, estuvieron cancelladas. Parece que para Brennus es un subjecto tabu.
Okay, then, allow me to write them again!
Also, when Italy, Spain, and Portugal were mere backwaters, France was among the leading powers in the world, and involved in international empire building with the northern European powers like Britain, Netherlands, and Germany. France was also wealthier, and more modern and secularistic. This tends to affect how an outsider thinks of the French.
"I understand that it is one of the traditional image of italy - an image especially brought by the poor countrymen from the south of Naples who emigrated to USA or France in the 19th and the beguining of the 20th century. This image is linked with the extreme south of Italy (southern from naples), a part of it wich is considered by the other italians themselves as a different place.
Italy has also an very different mediatic image : The international image of ultra-luxury is lamost always often linked with Italy and italian style : Ferrari cars, Lamborghini, Gucci, Versace, Prada, Armani, etc.
Using Italian name gives more "high class" to everything. The culture of "class" and appearance is a very Italian thing, almost never linked to the northern European countries.
German car, for exemple have to reputation of being solid and powerfull, but not styled and fashionned as Italian cars are. When thinking going buying luxury dresses, most people will think to go to Milan, Rome or Paris, but not as much in Berlin. "
Yes, this is true. In addition to this other perception of Italy, I also think of fashion, luxury, etc. When I'm buying dress shoes, I search for Italian shoes like Ferragamo. When I want to buy a nice tie, i look for a "Made in Italy" symbol. The colognes I wear are almost always from Italian designers like "Aqua di Gio", or "Dolce & Gabanna". The world's most expensive cars are often Italian made, like Lambourgini or Ferrari. The same applies to motorcycles like "Ducati". The Italians are also famous for their fine coffee. I have a certain passion for coffee, and Italian names like "frappuchino", "mocha late", "cappucino", "espresso", etc, are all familiar terms for me. Italy and France also share a similiarity in that they are famous for their fine wines, while Spain is only to a limited extent. Italy is more similar to France in a lot of ways as well, while Spain is more similiar to Italy in other ways.
There is no denying that France is a Latin country. But, to classify France as a southern European or mediterranean culture/country, is more of a question mark. The main factor which causes me to not group France's culture witht the nations of Spain, Portugal, and Italy, is the demeanor of the people themselves. The French are a more reserved people. And nearly all Europeans I have met (literally hundreds) share the same opinion of the French.
When asked why they don't associate with the French the same way they do with Spanish culture, Italians respond with, "francesi non sono caldi".
Italians and Spaniards are normally rather loud, open, affectionate, while the French are more reserved. This is the dominant distinguishing factor between the French and the other Latin peoples.
And I'm not taking on a hispano-centric view of Latinity as I was before. I think of Italy as my reference point for the Latin nations.
Also, when Italy, Spain, and Portugal were mere backwaters, France was among the leading powers in the world, and involved in international empire building with the northern European powers like Britain, Netherlands, and Germany. France was also wealthier, and more modern and secularistic. This tends to affect how an outsider thinks of the French.
"I understand that it is one of the traditional image of italy - an image especially brought by the poor countrymen from the south of Naples who emigrated to USA or France in the 19th and the beguining of the 20th century. This image is linked with the extreme south of Italy (southern from naples), a part of it wich is considered by the other italians themselves as a different place.
Italy has also an very different mediatic image : The international image of ultra-luxury is lamost always often linked with Italy and italian style : Ferrari cars, Lamborghini, Gucci, Versace, Prada, Armani, etc.
Using Italian name gives more "high class" to everything. The culture of "class" and appearance is a very Italian thing, almost never linked to the northern European countries.
German car, for exemple have to reputation of being solid and powerfull, but not styled and fashionned as Italian cars are. When thinking going buying luxury dresses, most people will think to go to Milan, Rome or Paris, but not as much in Berlin. "
Yes, this is true. In addition to this other perception of Italy, I also think of fashion, luxury, etc. When I'm buying dress shoes, I search for Italian shoes like Ferragamo. When I want to buy a nice tie, i look for a "Made in Italy" symbol. The colognes I wear are almost always from Italian designers like "Aqua di Gio", or "Dolce & Gabanna". The world's most expensive cars are often Italian made, like Lambourgini or Ferrari. The same applies to motorcycles like "Ducati". The Italians are also famous for their fine coffee. I have a certain passion for coffee, and Italian names like "frappuchino", "mocha late", "cappucino", "espresso", etc, are all familiar terms for me. Italy and France also share a similiarity in that they are famous for their fine wines, while Spain is only to a limited extent. Italy is more similar to France in a lot of ways as well, while Spain is more similiar to Italy in other ways.
There is no denying that France is a Latin country. But, to classify France as a southern European or mediterranean culture/country, is more of a question mark. The main factor which causes me to not group France's culture witht the nations of Spain, Portugal, and Italy, is the demeanor of the people themselves. The French are a more reserved people. And nearly all Europeans I have met (literally hundreds) share the same opinion of the French.
When asked why they don't associate with the French the same way they do with Spanish culture, Italians respond with, "francesi non sono caldi".
Italians and Spaniards are normally rather loud, open, affectionate, while the French are more reserved. This is the dominant distinguishing factor between the French and the other Latin peoples.
And I'm not taking on a hispano-centric view of Latinity as I was before. I think of Italy as my reference point for the Latin nations.
" Italy is more similar to France in a lot of ways as well, while Spain is more similiar to Italy in other ways. "
I really agree with this opinion, this is the way I tend to see the things.
We could also extend the comparaison and say that France and Spain share things that Italy doesn't : As I said previously in the deleted post, Spain and France share the fact of being at the same time mediterranean and Atlantic countries, wich Italy is not.
The Atlantic atmosphere, mood and way of life is very different from the mediterranean one - Atlantic regions tend to be freshy, green, cooler in summer and milder in Winter, and spread a quite "mystical feeling", as Frederik from Norway rigthely said. Even the nostalic moods and bagpipe music and "fishing-port" imaginary is deeply rooted in North-Western Spain And west of France (especially in Britany and Galicia/Asturias). Basques are shared beetween the two countries.
" The French are a more reserved people. "
I understand this is a stereotype, but as a french myself I would have difficulties to agree with that. I think it is a subjective thing wich depends so much of the people. I don't think that the french culture as a whole could be described as "reserved" as it could be said about Japan for exemple. Curiously inside France the stereotype about people near the Belgian border are famous for being unreserved, while the Corsican one portray them as very proud, less talkative and closed over themselves.
Among south Europeans, the Portuguese are famous for being a melancholic and nostalgic less talkative Atlantic people, quite different from the Italian mediterranean Italian stereotype.
I personally tend to think, after having being travelling in a lot of south European places that the cultures share common points of the latin herency but also strong differences when speaking about moods and behaviours. some regions can be extraverted towards foreign people, others more closed to who they don't know (especially in islands such as Corsica or Sardinia especially). France can have I think both cases.
I really agree with this opinion, this is the way I tend to see the things.
We could also extend the comparaison and say that France and Spain share things that Italy doesn't : As I said previously in the deleted post, Spain and France share the fact of being at the same time mediterranean and Atlantic countries, wich Italy is not.
The Atlantic atmosphere, mood and way of life is very different from the mediterranean one - Atlantic regions tend to be freshy, green, cooler in summer and milder in Winter, and spread a quite "mystical feeling", as Frederik from Norway rigthely said. Even the nostalic moods and bagpipe music and "fishing-port" imaginary is deeply rooted in North-Western Spain And west of France (especially in Britany and Galicia/Asturias). Basques are shared beetween the two countries.
" The French are a more reserved people. "
I understand this is a stereotype, but as a french myself I would have difficulties to agree with that. I think it is a subjective thing wich depends so much of the people. I don't think that the french culture as a whole could be described as "reserved" as it could be said about Japan for exemple. Curiously inside France the stereotype about people near the Belgian border are famous for being unreserved, while the Corsican one portray them as very proud, less talkative and closed over themselves.
Among south Europeans, the Portuguese are famous for being a melancholic and nostalgic less talkative Atlantic people, quite different from the Italian mediterranean Italian stereotype.
I personally tend to think, after having being travelling in a lot of south European places that the cultures share common points of the latin herency but also strong differences when speaking about moods and behaviours. some regions can be extraverted towards foreign people, others more closed to who they don't know (especially in islands such as Corsica or Sardinia especially). France can have I think both cases.
"I don't think that the french culture as a whole could be described as "reserved" as it could be said about Japan for exemple. "
Oh, of course not. The people of Iceland are many times warmer than the emotionless Japanese. I respect, and admire the Japanese culture in so many ways. In fact one of my favorite books is "Shogun" by James Clavell. It's a long Asian series with a few of the books taking place in Hong Kong, while the others, like Shogun, and Gai Jin, take place in Japan. I learned so much Japanese from those historical fiction books. Sadly, I've forgotten most of what I've learned. But, the Japanese attitude toward outward display of inner feelings is very detrimental to a human's health and well being, I would think. Holding in stress the way they do, produced more toxins in the body, which has an adverse affect on the immune system, and your mental well being.
I would describe the French people's temperment as being in between an Italian's and a Dutchmen. They are not cold like the English. They are more affectionate. But at the same time, they are far more reserved than Italians or Spaniards (or Hispano-Americans). So, in many ways more than one, I view France as a Latin country, that is the medium between Northern Europe and southern Europe.
Oh, of course not. The people of Iceland are many times warmer than the emotionless Japanese. I respect, and admire the Japanese culture in so many ways. In fact one of my favorite books is "Shogun" by James Clavell. It's a long Asian series with a few of the books taking place in Hong Kong, while the others, like Shogun, and Gai Jin, take place in Japan. I learned so much Japanese from those historical fiction books. Sadly, I've forgotten most of what I've learned. But, the Japanese attitude toward outward display of inner feelings is very detrimental to a human's health and well being, I would think. Holding in stress the way they do, produced more toxins in the body, which has an adverse affect on the immune system, and your mental well being.
I would describe the French people's temperment as being in between an Italian's and a Dutchmen. They are not cold like the English. They are more affectionate. But at the same time, they are far more reserved than Italians or Spaniards (or Hispano-Americans). So, in many ways more than one, I view France as a Latin country, that is the medium between Northern Europe and southern Europe.