Why do people look down on Spanish?

a.p.a.m.

how they are about the french language ? I've heared that they find francophones arrogant, but some people say it wouldn't be a bad expereince for us in the US.

the next year in the summer I will be in the US, so i'm very anxieus after i hear that they're so nasty about the other cultures.

where in the US are you from ?

a.p.a.m. now that you made clear that you are not a racist I believe you. But notice that it was what you wrote that caused my response and the bad impression. You never said you did not share those beliefs like the rest of your fellow countrymen.
In Europe, many old retired people choose Spain, Italy, or Portugal to live. It is a dream for many. Do not think that North Europeans are racist or look down on southern Europen countries , quite on the contrary.

I do not know of any impediment for the Southern European countries to catch up with N.European technology achivements . I think your views are with some prejudice without you notice. Is there any impedment for those countries to catch up and become technology advanced? I do not see any.

The Scott, Welsh or Irish accents makes many N.Americans smile with disdain and even many do not understand them. I spoke with some N. American people with Mormon religion that think having a darker skin is punishment and that they are superior beings. I did not know they were politeist and some lived with many wives. I was really surprised to know.
Truly a N. American religion.

Guest, I'm an American of Italian ancestry and I've been exposed to so much anti-Italian bigotry that it sometimes makes my eyes water. I believe that Europeans are more tolerant of different cultures than Americans. I also believe that Europeans are more sophisticated than Americans. The average American is a self-centered, self-indulgent ignoramus who cannot locate his/her own country on a world map. Many of my fellow countrymen espouse racial, religious, and cultural hatred. I, of course, know this because I listen to the casual, ordinary speech of the average American on a daily basis and I find it to be disgusting. How can I espouse racial or ethnic hatred when I have been a victim of it myself? Guest, how can I be prejudiced against Southern European countries when my own ancestry is Southern European? I know that So. European nations have contributed to high tech and industrial advancements , but not at the same level as Germany. I'm not saying this because I'm anti-South European, it's just my observation. Racial and ethnic bigotry is alive and well here in the good ol' U.S. of A. I am not one who espouses such beliefs.

Pauline, I am a native of Massachusetts (Greater Boston). I now reside in Florida.

a.p.a.m.,

I'm afraid I don't quite understand why you equate the United States with Northern Europe. Unless I've greatly misunderstood your messages, you assumption seems to be that because people from the United States often (at least in your experience) look down on Southern Europeans and Latin Americans, Northern Europeans must also feel the same way.

In England, however, I find that there is far more prejudice against Germans than prejudice against, say, Italians.

Brennus : « The English and the French have both been very assiduous about suppressing the languages and cultures of Celtic speaking minorities in thier countries (...) »

???

La disparition de la culture celte en Gaule est largement antérieure à l'apparition de la France...







Brennus : « a widespread dislike of Jews in Europe was one of the factors that contributed to World War II ».

La haine des juifs était un phénomène ***TRÈS*** répandu aux États-Unis aussi. De même que la haine des Noirs, des Asiatiques etc.

Quant aux facteurs majeurs qui ont favorisé la guerre de 39-45, ils n'ont rien à voir avec les juifs, mais plutôt avec une crise économique née aux États-Unis (1929) qui a alimenté le développement du totalitarisme et de l'arbitraire en Europe.

--Northen Europeans work as many hours as southern Europeans some work less.--

Did you mean: some Northern Europeans work less...?
Because this is actually true and according to a survey, Germans seem to be one of the laziest nations...It is said that we have 30 days of paid vacation per year on average (excluding our numerous public and religious holidays). Here are relatively few so-called workaholics. Our daily goal is to finish work that is named "Feierabend" in German (engl. party evening). So yes, we are rather lazy.

I feel it's unfortunate that people in the richer, more developed nations feel they should be able to look down on those in poorer, less developed ones, as though the success of their country should automatically reflect on them. And the argument that we work harder seems offensive to me. As far as I understand it, we in the West often work relatively few hours in often much more comfortable jobs for far greater pay, while those in the developing world can toil for hours doing backbreaking labour for meagre reward just struggling to survive. And why do so many in the West feel that they should somehow be able to take credit for all the advances that have been made, when most of us have really contributed nothing to it ourselves. We just happen to have been born in the right place.

I mean I don't really see why I should feel superior to someone in the third world who has to work for 14 hours a day in a sweatshop for the equivalent of a few pence a day because they have little choice, while I have the luxury of being able to work in a nice, comfortable office for 7 hours a day for a reasonable wage, just because I happen to have been born into the right environment. Surely I should actually be admiring them.

Schools in the USA are a lot different from the European ones. Home coming queen, the nerds, the geecks the weird...I mean , kids at school learn to have prejudice about their school fellows, about southern people, about clever people, about anything that they do not understand. Boys and girsl have separated gymn class ( not even my mum was in a separated gymn class). I saw first grade latin speaker kids sit all together at lunch time, separated from all the others, although they spoke english. Brazilian, Spanish, Portuguese,Italian, Mexican, Peruan ...6 ,8 years old, they seemed to know they were from a different team and only sat together. I thought it was amazing because they were too young. I think the problem starts at school, no one teaches kids to respect and accept others differences. There is a big need to feel big and they seem to manage this by despising someone else.

« Schools in the USA are a lot different from the European ones. Home coming queen, the nerds, the geecks the weird...I mean , kids at school learn to have prejudice about their school fellows, about southern people, about clever people, about anything that they do not understand. Boys and girsl have separated gymn class ( not even my mum was in a separated gymn class). I saw first grade latin speaker kids sit all together at lunch time, separated from all the others, although they spoke english. Brazilian, Spanish, Portuguese,Italian, Mexican, Peruan ...6 ,8 years old, they seemed to know they were from a different team and only sat together. »

It is important to realise though that the United States is different from Europe, and not necessarily in a negative way — I don't think that this is really a case of Americans hating anyone who is different from them whilst Europeans are 'tolerant'.

There is far greater 'ethnic diversity' (at least of the sort which is physically noticeable) in the United States than in most European countries — compare 69% 'white' in the US to 92% 'white' in Britain, for example. Equally, American schools are often much larger than European schools, meaning that the pupils come from wider areas. People will usually seek to define themselves in terms of in-group/out-group in one way or another, and it happens that ethnic origin is the most obvious and most historically significant 'difference' between people within the United States.

At my previous school in England (I left a year ago), 80% of the pupils were of British Isles heritage, whilst the remaining 20% were from very varied backgrounds (I even had a friend from Mongolia). Those from different backgrounds HAD to integrate, because there weren't enough of them to form their own separate groups and because the 'white' contingent was overwhelming. So, if Guest had visited my old school, he might have thought 'this is wonderful — there are no divisions here!'. But he'd have been very wrong. Although we didn't divide ourselves ethnically, we divided ourselves in a way which might not have been so immediately obvious to people from outside the UK — we grouped ourselves according to social class.

""But he'd have been very wrong. Although we didn't divide ourselves ethnically, we divided ourselves in a way which might not have been so immediately obvious to people from outside the UK — we grouped ourselves according to social class. ""

You can not say that the rest of Europe is like England. How can someone know the social class of a school fellow without going to everybodys' house? I know many people that pretend to be what they are not. In the USA they have about the same behaviours and ethnic divisions all over the country. In Europe you can not say there is a class division between kids as a general rule. In how many European countries kids behave like they do in England? There are also places in the USA where there are no ethnic divisions made by kids, but as a general rule that is the N.American way. What is the European way? In Europe do you think everybody is like the English kids and we can say the British represent a European way of behaving?

<<The average American is a self-centered, self-indulgent ignoramus who cannot locate his/her own country on a world map.>>

I do think most Americans can locate America on a map. I believe the problem you are referring is the common notion that Americans cannot locate *anything else* on a map.

Racial and ethnic bigotry is alive and well and not just in America... but everywhere. I've spent a lot of time abroad. Don't try to tell me it doesn't exist. They may not be the same prejudices you are used to, but they are alive and well.

<<How can I espouse racial or ethnic hatred when I have been a victim of it myself?>>
Actually, quite easily. But I won't bother to go into how one can hate themselves, or be the victim and want to be the oppressor. That's not a conversation for antimoon.

<<I also believe that Europeans are more sophisticated than Americans>>
Why is that?

Let's talk about the stereotypes and prejudices that you are spouting. Damned dirty Americans, was it now? The "average" American has been defined over and over, not just here, but countless places. Your average American is fat, messy, loud, ignorant, egotistical, close-minded, racist, conservative and God-loving, etc. Basically think of anything bad you can say, and there you have it. Funny how no American who ever explains it is ever "average". And of all the Americans on this forum, none of them seem to be "average" either. Gee...

Let's talk about the average Italian, German, Briton. Let's see how far we get before someone (besides me) yells out "That's not a fair characterization."

On topic -
I think many of the reasons some look down on Spanish is tied to the nature of the majority of the Spanish-speakers in this country. Most view them as illegal workers who come to steal American jobs and are getting by on taxpayer money.

This is a stereotype, no different than the one Italians hold for the Albanians who are viewed as coming over to steal non-existent Italian jobs and then when they cannot find one (99% of the time according to my husband) all turn to petty crime and burden the Italian system (healthcare, housing).

These prejudices are widespread because they are socially acceptable.

<< You can not say that the rest of Europe is like England. >>

I didn't say that it was. I didn't say that my old school necessary represented a typical school in England either. I simply gave an example of a situation in Europe (a specific school in England) where divisions were still made by the pupils, even though they weren't on ethnic lines. The point being was that although skin colour and ethnic origin was largely irrelevant in that situation, people found another difference to emphasise -- social class.

<< How can someone know the social class of a school fellow without going to everybodys' house? >>

Quite easily -- accent is considered an important factor, for example. The whole notion of 'class' in England is about identity and perception anyway; it has little if anything to do with financial wealth or material possessions.

<< In how many European countries kids behave like they do in England? >>

I don't know. I don't really know how children in England 'generally behave' either. Any generalisations which can be made about such a thing will likely apply to most of the Western World anyway.

<< There are also places in the USA where there are no ethnic divisions made by kids, but as a general rule that is the N.American way. What is the European way? >>

How many schools have you visited in the United States and Canada? Are you in a position to describe what the 'North American way' is? The only person who suggested that there might be a 'European way' was the Guest above my last post, who may or may not be you.

<< In Europe do you think everybody is like the English kids and we can say the British represent a European way of behaving? >>

Did I say that? But as Tiffany implied, there isn't really a 'British way of behaving' either.

Tiffany,

<< This is a stereotype, no different than the one Italians hold for the Albanians who are viewed as coming over to steal non-existent Italian jobs and then when they cannot find one (99% of the time according to my husband) all turn to petty crime and burden the Italian system (healthcare, housing).

These prejudices are widespread because they are socially acceptable. >>

Absolutely. And one can find that similar attitudes exist towards Pakistanis in Britain, Algerians in France, Turks in Germany etc. Heck, when I was talking about this to one of my German friends a few months ago, she even seemed to view the third generation Italian immigrants in Germany (who are still largely thought of as 'guestworkers' and are not considered 'proper Germans' by many people) with a similar sort of prejudice -- something which really did surprise me.