Spanish and filipino

Let me breathe out my whole opinion.

I agree that most of us have more Asian blood, but I strongly disagree if someone will say that there is a pure Filipino. Right from the start, there were migrants from different places to the Philippines. Reason why we have so many dialects and our looks are so different from each other. Because we are a group of people with different ancestral backgrounds.
We are closer to Vietnamese,Thais,Indonesians,Malaysians and Chinese when it comes to blood issues.

Though I strongly believe, that the Spanish language must be brought back to the Philippines, for it was the first official language of the country and most of all, Philippines "WAS NOT" a country until Legaspi named it after King Philip of Spain. Basically, we did not have a language and we did not have our own people, different cities in Manila spoke different dialects. For example, Quezon City area could be speaking tagalog in the past while Makati City area could be speaking something else in the past. Why do you think there are still hundreds of rural areas in the Philippines that do not speak or understand Tagalog?. Tagalog people were the most dominant population in the past, reason why it became the most spoken language up to the present and therefore came as a replacement for Spanish after the American colonization period.

But let me go back to the basics, it was not our official language and we did not have a country. Basically, we were made by Spain and therefore we should still be speaking Spanish. Just look at Latin America, the Aztecs,Mayans etc were migrants from middle east and south Asia, I know because it is a part of my studies. They spoke something else before Spanish came, but now most of them Speak Spanish. Reason why in the USA, someone from Latin America always gets chosen over a Filipino applicant for a job, why?, because Spanish is USA's 2nd language. That's another minus points for us. Also if a Filipino wants to go to Latin America or Spain for a job?, that's another minus point for us. Abuse of Spain in the past is not enough reason to reject the Spanish language, if that is the government's reason why they are not putting it back. Then why do most of us speak English?, after being betrayed and abused by Americans.

That is all, Philippines will be a definite treasure of the world and Filipinos will be a definite asset to the world's population if we are trilingual with 2 of the languages we speak are the 2 biggest and IN DEMAND languages spoken worldwide.

[quote] Pure Malay : We are both ignorant and egoistic [/quote]

Indeed, us Filipinos are ignorant of our past and backgrounds.
We may be more Asian by genetics, but our culture and ways of living are way closer to Latin America and Spain. This makes us "Hispanic". Since we used to speak Spanish and our culture is still Spanish. Not to mention that our current national language Tagalog is "incomplete" without 2,000 Spanish words. The Visayan and the rest without 6,000 Spanish words. Also a reminder, the Visayan population counts in Spanish and uses a lot of Spanish words in everyday conversation.

His·pan·ic (hĭ-spān'ĭk) Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

The term "filipino" is nationality, not racial. I think Jay is aware of this and is using it as a manner of speaking. The original filipinos were the spaniards. The malays, or the natives, were "indios." Growing up, where it said "Race" on registration and application forms, we used to write in "Malayan." Then starting, I believe, in the late 1950's and early 1960's, when the emphasis switched to ethnicity rather than race, as it was determined that it was too difficult to deal with race, we write in "Filipino." In so doing, we make it difficult for those born and reared in the Philippines who are not malayan, but say, chinese or spanish, or who don't look malayan, to say they are filipino. They are just as much filipino as a person with anglo-saxon ancestry is as much american as I am. (lol) I like chinoy migrants to the US keeping their identity as filipino, rather than reverting to chinese. I like Enrique Iglesia saying he is 1/2 filipino, although his mom is spanish or spanish mestiza, or Pilita Corales saying she is cebuano.

When President Marcos came to Hawaii (before his downfall), I attended the banquet in place of my director in the Governor's Office who couldn't make it. With my special pass, I was let ahead of the mass of people at the entrance to the ballroom in Sheraton Waikiki. There was only one other person inside, Dr. Francisco Tan, a chinoy. He wore a barong tagalog and was anxiously awaiting the president. He and I reserved our spots directly in front of where Marcos and his family and entourage were to sit, on the other side of ther roped off area, just about 10 feet away. In the 30 minutes wait, he and I got into a discussion of what is a filipino. I started it by asking him this question: "Dr. Tan, what do you consider yourself to be, a chinese or a filipino?"

At first he looked at me bewildered, then answered with a question of his own. "Tell me, do you consider yourself to be filipino, hawaiian or american."
I had to think it over for a moment then replied."Well, I my parents are from Cebu, so that makes me filipino, but I was born and raised in Hawaii, so my personality is Hawaiian. And.."
He stopped me and said, laughing, aren't you american?"
Then he added "before you became hawaiian or american, as a young boy, your psyche was filipino. Only through enculturation you became hawaiian and american. But there is still a strong element in you that says you are filipino, right?"
I nodded.
He continued, "I may be biologically chinese, but I have no memory of that. All I know is that I am filipino."

Pure Malay, if the monicker is descriptive, understandibly sees the filipino as being more malay than other racial group, and this is correct, if we went on sheer numbers. On the other hand- this is correct too- the chinese mestizos, the spanish mestizos, the american mestizos can claim to be are just as much filipino as the pure malays, the same way as the pure indians, the mestizos and the pure spanish in Mexico can claim to be mexican. Don't forget the negritos; they too are filipinos and factor proportionately into the mainstream. I read somewhere that there are also arabs and polynesians in the mainstream.

Unlike many other countries like Korea, Japan, Germany, and England, where the people tend to be homogenious, the filipinos are a wealthy and beautiful mixture of people from all over the world, just like the americans. This is exactly why I am proud to say that I am a filipino. As an american also, I am a double whammy!

I'm sure some of you might not like me asking, but have any of you heard of colonial mentality? I've met some of your fellow countrymen, almost all have claimed some Spanish blood and some of them have this intense fascination with so-called mestizos (who are in fact castizos and have mostly Spanish blood). One even said that most filipinos seeing marrying European as "mejorar la raza." I have to wonder why they think being Spanish is so great, that they would get to the point of "inventing" Spanish ancestors and worshipping these castizos. Inferiority complex?

>> I'm sure some of you might not like me asking, but have any of you heard of colonial mentality? <<

Sadly, the colonial mentality is very much ingrained in the Filipino's psyche (especially Manileños). And it doesn't help that many of the Filipino fashion & beauty models, lead actors & actresses, pop stars, etc. are primarily mestizos, while the people cast as maids, servants, and comedic sidekicks are the "pure" looking Filipinos (read: Malay stock).

>> One even said that most filipinos seeing marrying European as "mejorar la raza." <<

Alas, 'tis true. One my dad's cousins whom I recently met, whose son and daughter married white Australians and gave her mestizo grandchildren, exclaimed how "blessed" she was because the family had "*improved* their bloodlines". And then there's my cousin, who married a French-Canadian... when she gave birth to a beautiful girl, she kept mentioning how fair her skin was, and how light her hair was, but she was disappointed that her nose was too flat and her eyes were "singkit". Inferiority complex? More like *ashamed* of their own ethnicity/race!

"who are in fact castizos and have mostly Spanish blood."

Something related to the question:

In Jalisco, Mexico (especially in, "Los Altos de Jalisco") the people are made up of Castizos or Criollos, mostly Castizos. It is said that Jalisco is the white mole of Mexico.

Other places within Mexico have pockets of Castizos or Criollos (i.e. Coahuila de Zaragoza, Chihuahua, Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Sonora, Veracruz, Puebla, Sinaloa & Nuevo leon) which they consist of *mostly* non-spanish blood =German, French, Italian, Irish, Lebanese etc.


"I have to wonder why they think being Spanish is so great, that they would get to the point of "inventing" Spanish ancestors and worshipping these castizos. Inferiority complex? "


Moreover, I think it is due mostly to bad conditioning of the past and present. The Spanish categorized people, as the Americans do now. And the fact, that most latin-american countries reflect American ideals. Furthermore the good thing about Mexicans is that most all of them consider themselves Mestizos, so there's less racial tension now. The only Mexicans you'll hear say, "I'm spanish or I'm half Italian or what have you" would be the CHICANOS (mexicans born in the U.S.A) It just goes to show.

Salutations.

--->I have to wonder why they think being Spanish is so great, that they would get to the point of "inventing" Spanish ancestors and worshipping these castizos. Inferiority complex?<---

I believe that what they are trying to say is far from inferiority complex. Also, there is nothing too great in being Spanish, since all races are equal,at least in my own eyes. It is more about "not forgetting" where you really came from. Yes we are Malayan,Indonesian,Chinese,Indian,Arabic,African, Latin American and European mix which makes the "Filipino race", also to make it clear to anyone who is unaware of the fact. The word Filipino is a nationality, there is no such thing as "pure Filipino" as I have heard majority of the Filipinos I meet say, that they are "pure Filipinos", which really sounds annoying when you are aware of the fact, that there is no such thing.

The whole point of my thread is "why" do we push it so hard to be like the Americans and to be chinese and something else, you name it. While most of us deny that we are also part Spanish?. The Spanish language by the way became the official language of the Philippines in 1565 when Miguel Lopez de Legaspi fully colonized the Philippines. The Spanish language was spoken until 1950, but was banned from being spoken during the American era in 1898 due to promotion of the English language. After the Philippines was given its own independence, the government wanted to prove to everyone that they are already independent, therefore they made the Tagalog the national language and was supported by the past presidents. My grandparents speaks 3 languages, English, Spanish and Tagalog and so do I, but I am 1/3 Chinese and Filipino(mixed races) by blood. (I lived in the Philippines for 17 years, was born and grew up there).

I once went with a group of friends to have a dinner, in where we had the topic about Filipinos. One of my friends said that she is a "pure Filipina", then came my other friend and said "there is no such thing, our ancestors were all migrants from different continents and mixed with the Europeans, mostly the Spanish during the colonization". And then another one said "we are chinese" so I was shocked of what she said and I replied "what the are you talking about?, we are a mix of different races,not only chinese" and then she was pushing it that we are chinese or whatever. Then the other ones said that we look closer to Indonesian and Malaysians, which is true. But basing on the words that my friends said, they are more proud being "chinese" ,which is plain stupid in my own point of view. While the rest of our friends from Latin America, agrees with me and my other friend, that we are not just chinese, but also Spanish mixed with other Asian races. Which I made clear to them that we all have blood from all the mentioned races earlier, not just chinese, not just spanish or the other ones.

Also, in my years of studying, I have proven to myself that the history class being taught in the Philippine schools, especially the Spanish colonization era, is too exaggerated. The Spanish was not that cruel, the high class in the past (the current average to high end wealthy people) were treated well. The poor people (the ones that we usually see on Philippine TV having rallies and riots against the government) were the ones that were treated bad. Up to this current time, the doings of the Spanish colonizers still exist through the Philippine government, but this time, it is hidden and it is in a more organized and smarter way to hide it from the general public. Also the Spanish using the religion to threaten people, "DID NOT" only happen in the Philippines. Religions were used in the past in whole Europe to make people pay taxes and give their lands to the church. "And Filipino students are never made aware of this fact" therefore thinking that all the Spanish did was to enslave the Filipinos in the past using the government and the religion.

If I will compare it to the present, the ones speaking Spanish in the past are the ones speaking English in the present. The ones going to jail and getting smashed by the cops on the streets while they're performing their rallies were the ones who were tortured in the past. Our heroes are compared to the current Filipino politicians who are in favor to change the Philippine government to a better government, in which some of those politicians ended up being in jail, since torture is not allowed at all in our current time.

If Filipinos revolted in the past for independence, some of our current politicians wants a charter change. Speaking of charter change, majority of the Philippine population are "uneducated", therefore the people voting for the ones who will lead the country can easily be tricked. Just look now.. who are running for the government seats?, actors and actresses (LOL) . Pretty sure they will win due to the massive amount of fans that they have, fans that belong to the low class or poor families which makes the majority of the Philippines population. Now look back to the past :) , can you see the significance? , the difference between the Spanish government in the Philippines and the current Philippine government?

Revolutionaries(Spanish Era) = People Power(Current Time)

About the American colonization, the history of American era taught in the Philippines makes the Americans look so good and very caring to the Filipinos after the betrayal. I believe that the Philippine education is designed to make the Americans look good, why?, because we depend on them, from the past to the present and for sure in the future.

Therefore, I believe that the past posts were talking about how "bias" us Filipinos were being informed about our real ancestry.

I hope this helps

Oh I forgot, it is true , but REALLY SAD that Filipinos always try to be something else. Go to Manila right now, you'll see a group of teenagers, majority are gang members, in every corner saying that they are "chicanos" and trying to speak Spanish. Since I understand Spanish ,I get irritated, the words they say are not even Spanish, they just try to make it sound like Spanish lol.

While on the other hand, you will not even hear a single tagalog word if you go to Makati restaurants where the rich people live and hang out. Also I forgot to add something.

--->Jay : Philippines will be a definite treasure of the world and Filipinos will be a definite asset to the world's population if we are trilingual with 2 of the languages we speak are the 2 biggest and IN DEMAND languages spoken worldwide. <---

This is very true, I got my job over a fellow Filipino applicant because I am trilingual (English, Tagalog and Spanish ) . Not to mention he has more job experience related to that job than me.

--- > Hello : Indeed, us Filipinos are ignorant of our past and backgrounds.
We may be more Asian by genetics, but our culture and ways of living are way closer to Latin America and Spain. This makes us "Hispanic". Since we used to speak Spanish and our culture is still Spanish. Not to mention that our current national language Tagalog is "incomplete" without 2,000 Spanish words. The Visayan and the rest without 6,000 Spanish words. Also a reminder, the Visayan population counts in Spanish and uses a lot of Spanish words in everyday conversation. <---

Totally agreed, we tend to deny that we are part Spanish but we are so proud to say that we are part Chinese.

I also agree that Spanish must be brought back to the Philippines as an official language alongside Tagalog and English. There are way too much useless subjects/courses in highschool such as home economics in where they teach you to wash plates, anyone can learn that without proper lectures in school.

"Totally agreed, we tend to deny that we are part Spanish but we are so proud to say that we are part Chinese. "

Interesting, because the opposite is true in my case. My sister above me has red hair and freckles. She does look part spanish. My eldest sister and one of my brothers look pure chinese. Guess what? We asked our parents if we had chinese blood. My mother always said that it was my father who was part chinese. he denied it. Then he would say "just my toes." On the other hand, my mother who was fair skinned with freckles and light brown hair was very proud of the fact that her grandfather was from Spain. Although she looked part spanish, her eyes were chinese. My eldest is my half sister from my Mom's first marriage. She looked like my Mom and pure chinese. I think my mom had chinese blood, but denied it.

In my earlier post I talked about Dr. Tan, about how he indirectly denied being genetically chinese. Now let me tell you about the family who lives bout 5 houses away from me. She owns a restaurant and a lunch wagon. About 15 years ago, when I first saw her I assumed she was chinese because she looked chinese. Then I heard her talk for the first time. She had a strong filipino accent. I asked her if she was Filipino. She said yes. I asked, Chinese Filipino? she said no. Then one summer her daughter home from college on the mainland was helping her in the lunch wagon. Again, I brought up ethnicity, asking the mother "are you sure you are not Chinese?" She again repeated, I am filipino. To this the daughter said, we are chinese.

The Visayans in Hawaii whom I grew up with were small in numbers. They were light skinned. But I never heard them say they had spanish or chinese blood. Only when you pressed them, as we did our parents about being part chinese.

Most people are unaware of their background, even if they are, you will always find someone who is ashamed of their other half or part. It is either the mother is unaware of her background or her daughter was miseducated. If the daughter was born there, then probably, someone told her that Filipinos are Chinese people who migrated to the Philippines or something like that.

Some Filipinos in where I live, believe that we are Hispanic, while some believe that we are Chinese, while the truth is, we are mixed of both. Educated Caucasians, Afro-Americans or we could just say the other races, most especially the Latins and Spanish of Spain. They all see Filipinos as Asian Hispanics, for the fact that we are really mixed. The number one thing that most Latin people ask me when they find out that I am from the Philippines, " You're Filipino!?, do you speak Spanish? " or as soon as they find out that I am Filipino, they just start speaking Spanish to me and fortunately, I do speak it lol. Speaking of miseducation of the Filipino youth, it is up to the Philippine government if they want to make our history more clear to the students who will carry on the knowledge and pass it on to their future children. Cheap books and low class education will not do it, though there are many private schools in the Philippines, the books that they use are of the low class or the cheap ones. The high class schools in the Philippines teaches Chinese instead of Filipino or Tagalog, I used to go from one back there so I know, there is no Filipino class.

I myself was unaware of these facts until I did researches myself and started studying due to curiosity and yes I am proud to say that I am a Filipino, a mixed Asian and Spanish race. Why deny it?, many races loves us Filipinos, especially our fellow Hispanics and that is an obvious fact. Latins treat us like we are one of the people from Latin America or the Spanish from Spain, I speak based on my experience.Since I came to this country, from the first Hispanic person I met, to the last one, I saw from their faces the words that needed not to be spoken, "Its a brother!" lol.

I just wish the Philippines would once again look back where we all came from and bring back the Spanish language. Aside from being Asian by location and blood, we must not forget who made us a country and who branded us. If the Spanish did not conquer us, we are probably a part of the communist China right now or the Communist North Korea or something worse, you'll never know. And not to forget, our national hero Jose Rizal spoke Spanish as his first language, not Tagalog, including the other famous heroes were Spanish speakers. If you will see the Philippine flag that was raised by the Katipuneros during their revolution, the phrase "VIVA LA REPUBLICA FILIPINA" were written on the blue and red parts of the flag, this means "MABUHAY ANG REPUBLIKA NG PILIPINAS" in Tagalog by the way, even Tagalog sentences can "NEVER" be completed without Spanish words hahaha.

Have a good day everyone

One of the difficulties we had working in a planning agency in the Office of the Governor, State of Hawaii, was in demographics. We had to keep track of the public services to ensure equal services to all ethnic groups. Our breakdown was White, Black, Hispanic, Asian and Pacific Islander, etc. Later, Hispanic got delineated to white Hispanic, Non-white Hispanic. One of the other planners, a Ph.D. from Japan threw in the monkey wrench. She said "What about the Filipinos? They are Hispanic, both white and Asian." It opened my eyes. I never saw it that way. It had to be a Japanese to point it out to me.

After 350 years of Spanish rule and enculturation, how can the Philippines not be hispanic? The last 50 years or so of americanization do not/cannot erase this historical fact. I can't understand why there are those who deny that Filipinos are both asian and hispanic.

>> Some Filipinos in where I live, believe that we are Hispanic, while some believe that we are Chinese, while the truth is, we are mixed of both. <<

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it's a little misleading (or even inaccurate) to state that Filipinos are Chinese or a mixture of Chinese and something else, unless a specific individual Filipino actually has traceable Chinese lineage. While it's true the Philippines has always had a sizeable Hoklo and Chinese mestizo population (one that has made significant contributions to the Philippine vocabulary, cuisine, and culture), they have never been the dominant ethnic group nor have they ever ruled the islands to have been so genetically productive.

The vast majority of Filipinos are Austronesian (once called the Malay race), not Spanish, not Chinese, not mestizo. Past anthropologists, linguists, and archaeologists advanced the theory that the Austronesian people originated in Southeast China, headed south to the Malay Peninsula, crossed the seas into the Malay Archipelago, and headed north up to the Philippines and into Taiwan. However, contemporary anthropologists and linguists now believe that the Austronesians descend from the Taiwanese aborigines who crossed over to the Philippines around 5000-2500 BC, spread south into the rest of the Philippines and into Borneo, Moluccas, and Java, and from there spread eastward to Micronesia, and westward to Sumatra and the Malay Peninsula. Extensive genetic research has shown that the Ami tribe of Taiwan is the closest genetic relative of the Filipinos. Which begs the question, where did the Taiwanese aborigines originate? The consensus is still out on that one. But if they did come from Southeast China, many eons have passed for them to be even considered "Chinese."

If you'd like to read more about the Taiwanese Aborigines, please see the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_people
(Read section titled "Ancestry")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_Aborigines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ami_people

>> Extensive genetic research has shown that the Ami tribe of Taiwan is the closest genetic relative of the Filipinos. <<

I just re-read the wikipedia article on Filipino's ancestry. Cross out "Extensive genetic research" and replace it with "One genetic study..."

I started to study Spanish in 2005 but I stopped last year because my cable provider removed TVE. I also realized Spanish is not as easy as I thought, I can read Spanish now but I still find it hard to transfer that "fluency" to understanding and speaking the language.

Anyway I support this plan, I think its time to replace the fake national language the Philippines has now.

"Sorry to be pedantic, but I think it's a little misleading (or even inaccurate) to state that Filipinos are Chinese or a mixture of Chinese and something else, unless a specific individual Filipino actually has traceable Chinese lineage."

The above is confusing and irrelevent to this discussion. We are talking about people who indeed have such lineages.

The vast majority of the filipinos are indeed malayan. No one is arguing that point. But I must repeat, "filipino" is not a racial term but designates nationality. We have to hold history writers accountable for for making it a racial term as they keep saying saying things like the "filipinos revolting against the spanish, filipino combatants vs spanish army, etc."

In those days, the filipinos were the insulares and peninsulares, the former being spanish born in the Philippines, the latter spanish from Spain. If you didn't know, the term "filipino" came from King Phillip II of Spain after whom the Philippines were named. The original settlers, the negritos and the the malays, were "Indios." This was the same in Mexico; the spanish called the natives indios as well. In America the natives there were also Indios (Indians). Only after the Spanish lost the Philippines after owning it for 350 years (100 years longer than the existence of America) the original people there, includlng my grandparents, became filipinos. But this didn't mean that the mestizos, chinese or spanish or the pure spanish who didn't flee the country couldn't be filipinos too.

I find it to be very ironic that the old spanish families in Manila and in Cebu, among the original filipinos, are now no longer thought of as filipino. I recently met the president of a an architectural firm here in Honolulu who is a 5th generation spanish from Cebu. He is sick and tired of people, especially those of the other ethnic groups, say he is not filipino (Similar to Dr. Tan's situation).

The population of minorities in the Philippines is small compared to the malayan, but it is still significant. There are more than 2,000,000 people in the RP who are chinoys. There is no chinatown in Cebu City- it's not necessary; the whole city is practically a chinatown. Sixty percent of the businesses in the PI are owned by people of chinese ancestry, and the politicians in both Cebu and Manila are mostly chinese or spanish/white mestizos. The movie stars in Manila are bascially half white or more. All of the presidents of the Philippines have been mestizos, either spanish or chinese. The national hero Jose Rizal was also a chinese mestizo. Now to say that they are not filipino would make one look foolish, wouldn't it?

As a freshman at the University of Hawaii many years ago, I joined the filipino fraternity. As part of the initiation 5 of us freshmen had to be "baptized" at a beach on an isolated beach. There were a couple of filipino fishermen nearby who came up to us to inquire about our doings. We told them, and they asked "You Ilocano?" We said No, Visayans." They looked at us with disdain and said "you not Pilipino," and walked away. Maribel, I hope you don't have that mentality.

One more thing, Maribel, As a filipino I am a minority in America. But less american than a "puti" it does make me not.