Why is greek such a funny language?

Well, it is true that greeks look more like they come from Asia Minor and not from any European country, but that doesn't neccessarily mean that most of them are turks who speak greek. Let's not forget that there has been movement of people from the shores of Northern Africa to greek islands and territories, so that must also be a factor why they have a darker skin than lets say italians who also have dark complectons, but look more European. It would be interesting to know how these influxes of Africans has influenced the greek language and the nameing of objects afterwards. I must agree that greek/turkish/albanian cuisine is superb...
:-) :-) :-)

Unbelievable how much ignorance dominates this forum! Turkish and Greek are similar? My God, that's upsetting! I cannot take it anymore! All kind of dilettantes are posting here whatever runs trough their empty heads...I don't have words to qualify something like this!

Brennus please: you got to something about it! You can't let such mud to alterate the information. There are some parasites who are attacking the historical truth here; they don't show any respect neither for Greek language nor for greek nation, nor for other languages, historical truth, everything... they teach other nations their own history. Where do they get this courage from? That's outrageous!

Hit the book you, who ever want to see what Greek language means! Greeks are like Turks? Like Bulgars? Oh, God!

Hi Ion! Nice to talk to you too!

I'm sorry but there is no need to scream. Why are you offending all the people who posted here. This is not right and very selfish at the same time. I personally didn't mean to ofend anyone, and also no one here ofended anyone. I respect greeks as I respect all other nations.

You are the only one behaving badly and this is not fair. This is an open forum and we are all discussing about languages and in this case greek language and the relation and borrowings it had to/from other neighboring nations and languages they speak.

It is true that not everyone is as smart and itelligent as you are, but this doesn't give you the right to offend. You cannot get upset at the facts and hit the first one that comes along. This is only a discussion my dear friend and not a fight, so please, behave!

It would be nice to hear something less offending from you in the future.

Thank you!

Mr. JR

<The relationship between Koine Greek and Classical Greek is something like the relationship between Yiddish and German. It basically consists of changed phonology and the way it is written.

Classical Greek was closer to 'written how it's spoken/spoken how it's written', but in Koine Greek alot of that was lost. Old diphthongs were turned into two-letter combinations that had a sound of its own (such as OU being pronnounced as U, as in French) as well as new added vocabulary and the evolution of older words.

Also the accents on the letters (á/é/í/ó/ú - ά/έ/ί/ό/ώ/ύ) changed from meaning a tone-like change in the vowel (pitch maybe?) to a stress change in the vowel.

I would say its a transition phase between Classical Greek and Modern Greek, much like there was a transition phase in Old Dutch to Modern Dutch. I don't use Old English/Modern English as an example because there were many radical changes during the period of Norman rule in England.>

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Re: Thank you very much indeed for your reply! It's very erudite of you!

Dear Ion!

It is not fair to offend people like that. I hope you are not one of those blind-nationalists who dominate social lives in the Balkans right now. It is very sad to see that you cannot behave according to the rules of this forum. Everyone here seems to talk about languages and their inter-relations and so far I haven't read anyone offending greek language or greeks, so what is the problem?

Personally, I think that greek is a very difficult language to learn, but I haven't had the chance to hear how turkish sounds so I can't make a comperison at this point. Without wanting to offend any greek, it sounds a little funny though...sorry...

I have travelled for some time in the Balkans as part of a "Youth Bicycle Group" and I have noticed some of the things mentioned here.

First of all, those albanians mentioned here living in Cameria (Northern Greece) are greeks by now (maybe 1/2 greeks, but it's not upon me to decide, let the European Council or UN decide about it), even though some of them still speak some kind of an albanian dialect called Arvanitas (pronounced Arva-nee-tas) and it is very interesting to study this albanian dialect and its influence in the modern greek as this might give a lot of answers at some issues discussed here regarding Balkanik languages. In this part of Greece people have a lighter complexion than in the other parts of the country and you can even find some blondes (on villages along the albanian border).

Second, if you go in Macedonia or in the North-Eastern part of Greece, you will notice that people look almost the same (more like bulgarian) , but different from those greeks who live in the South-Eastern part of Greece (in the border with Turkey), but the greek language they speak is the same, so even though they might belong to a different pool of geenes, the language is the same, so they are greeks no matter what the tone of their skin might be.

And on the South-Eastern side of Greece people look almost the same as people across the border (Turkey), but also spoke the same greek spoken at any other part I visited.

So, no matter what the skin tone of the greeks I saw, or the gene pool they belonged, albanian, bulgarian, or turkish, I can say that they were basically all greek, so there should be no confusion about it. The language was modern greek and everything around was greek. Maybe you can find the same identical things across the borders but who cares at this point. One day all those lands will be called Europe and these things will not matter that much.

I respect very much all those people who live there and their languages. I had the chance to dance and sing (well, maybe just sounds because I knew no words) to greek and turkish music and yes, they sound the same, and I loved them both.

Greek language...I don't find it funny, just too hard...

This website is great!

I can't tell that what percentage of greeks today come from the real greeks, but I am convinced that the greeks that I saw didn't look anything like the greeks described in the old books or writings and furthermore I believe that during the Ottoman years, greeks "suffered" under ottomans (turks) the hardest "plan-projected breeding" ever executed in the last millenia on any population in Europe. So, it would be practically imposible to find a "real greek" these days, even though I would personally love that to happen.

Besides, bulgarians always had their incursions too, "towars the sea" as they used to claim, during which they did their own "thing", etc.

Also, arabian caravans passed right through Greece continuosly and they did their "thing" too...

Albanian neighbors the same "thing" too...

So, unfortunately, due to the geographic location, Greece and its population became a favorite destination for every military campaigner or simple soldier in the Balkans, mostly ottomans (turks) and all did their "thing" as nothing was there to stop them.

I respect greeks and everyone in the Balkan Peninsula, but those people must realize that they are more like each other than they think. At the same time, their languages have evolved together just like their geenes.

With all the respect, I don't need to convince anyone for what I just wrote because a simple mirror would do the trick and explain everything to everyone.

I won't even bother with the genetic analysis of nations. It is a known fact that pretty much every nation has mixed (with its neighbours mostly, but not exclusively), so it is first of all pointless to try and determine which nation has the biggest mix %.

Secondly, I couldn't care less about genes, as I am not a new Hitler wannabe - but of course people have the right to care about race "purity" all they want, I suppose. Cultural bonds are what makes a nation, not genes.

Third and most important - it is fine to make assumptions, but please don't make "educated" statements if you have no clue... the Greek and Turkish languages are nothing alike. There are loan words both ways, just like there are loan words between say, English and French, but you couldn't really call those languages similar now, could you? We have loan words from all our neighbouring nations and vice versa. However, Greek is mutually intelligible with none of them. Turkish is also a complex language, with sounds not common the the western european ear, just like Greek; so is Chinese though. Doesn't mean there is a real connection. I definitely can't understand any Turkish, written or spoken (except the occasional loan words - sometimes not even them, as they were altered from one culture to the other). I am pretty sure any Turkish person would tell you the same.

Brennus: I appreciate your intervention and especially your, (as usually) pertinent and reliable opinions.


For few of you who felt offended by me and who I never intended to count them between the ones I was referring to, I consider necessary to explain these:

Hans/Darius

Please see below some extracts of my previous posting:

"Unbelievable how much ignorance dominates this forum! All kind of dilettantes are posting here whatever runs trough their empty heads.
There are some parasites who are attacking the historical truth here"


Darius perceived this as: I cite: "Why are you offending ALL the people who posted here? ".

Darius, SOME is never ALL; ALL includes SOME but I never made such a statement. I never said that All are dilettantes! Please read it properly when you combat.

Then I said:

"Hit the book you, who ever want to see what Greek language means! Greeks are like Turks? Like Bulgars?"

Darius, where did you see me accusing you, or anybody else who doesn't relate to these statements: Greek similar tot Turks? Why are you the one to feel offended? What is screaming in your acceptance: "Oh Good!"? Think twice before you jump, Darius!

You again: "It is true that not everyone is as smart and intelligent as you are, but this doesn't give you the right to offend. You cannot get upset at the facts and hit the first one that comes along. This is only a discussion my dear friend and not a fight, so please, behave!"

You cannot establish how smart or intelligent I am, neitehr do I about you or anybody else. This forum is too litle to build an opiniion of this type; what can you do though is to notice that I'm trying to supply healthy information and I'm getting upset when somebody is trying to disturb the atmosphere because of his hate across a nation or so. When I'm wrong and somebody proves it to me, I always accept it. I'm not a blind minded individual as Hans tried to associate me with. At least, I hope, I'm not.

Yes, I thought it is a discussion as well, but as you cannot see, the discussions should have some healthy core when start, otherwise they are running into disputes.

I'm surprised that you have gotten offended by me (although I didn't refer to you at all) and didn't notice how aggressive the statements made by some people were, especially when they said that the Greeks from today are Albanians or Arabs... If you are a Persian, how would you feel to be called an Arab? Or vice versa! Or how would majority of Iranians react by being called Arabs? Think about it?

Darius said:

" This is not right and very selfish at the same time"

You make me laugh, Darius calling me selfish...I don't see the fit here! Sorry!


Hans said:

"I hope you are not one of those blind-nationalists who dominate social lives in the Balkans right now" "It is very sad to see that you cannot behave according to the rules of this forum. Everyone here seems to talk about languages and their inter-relations and so far I haven't read anyone offending Greek language or Greeks, so what is the problem? "

Hans, when you hope that I-m not a blind nationalist which dominate social lives in the Balkans, you situate yourself in the same part of the line with me: against the rules of this forum. Who are you talking about that is blind nationalist dominating the Balkans social lives at this moment of time? Please let me know because you might know something , what I don't, and I would like to!

Yes, Balkan is a sensitive area because there was a permanent tension. While the peoples of the Balkans fought the Turks, the western world enjoyed developing arts, science etc. Because these ones what for Hans means blind -nationalists who were permanently fighting for their existence, the Turks gave time to Austrians to build an empire.

Before these statements should have been made, the individual needed to learn a little bit more about the risk of advancing such remarks. He should for example, know that between Turks and Greeks are not the best relations.

The Greeks and Turks manage today to live together (where no alternative exists), but they don't like each other. And "not like" is a smooth form o expressing what they feel for each other. To come here and say that Greek and Turkish languages are similar (when they are not at all) it is not just false, but a big INSULT, a big offence not only to a simple citizen...but to many people.

As I said, people who fought for its existence for centuries cannot take such remarks as easy, Hans! And sometimes, this superficiality remembers the time when the western Christian brothers rather fought with the Turks against Balkan than supporting it. There are wounds which are hurting even today , wounds what westerners in their superficiality don't find any justification for but explain them as being acts of primitivism..

That's offending not what I said. That's offence and aggressive language on this forum and not my opinion that on this forum are dilettantes...Try to distinguish the nuances here. You are offended by something I didn't addressed to you but you are not offended by stupid remarks which are hurting peoples feeling , people who are backing centuries of alienation. Try to think a little bit deeper.

Have a nice day!

P.S. If you don't know how Greek sounds, why are you making statements? Greek is not funny, it is a beautiful language, closer to ancient Greek , than Italian is to Latin, as very well Brennus concluded above!

Bogdan wrote:

"I have travelled for some time in the Balkans as part of a "Youth Bicycle Group" and I have noticed some of the things mentioned here.

First of all, those albanians mentioned here living in Cameria (Northern Greece) are greeks by now (maybe 1/2 greeks, but it's not upon me to decide, let the European Council or UN decide about it), even though some of them still speak some kind of an albanian dialect called Arvanitas (pronounced Arva-nee-tas) and it is very interesting to study this albanian dialect and its influence in the modern greek as this might give a lot of answers at some issues discussed here regarding Balkanik languages. In this part of Greece people have a lighter complexion than in the other parts of the country and you can even find some blondes (on villages along the albanian border). "

Dear Bogdan,

There are more than 100,000 Arvanitas-speaking, Albaian-Cams living in Cameria province (Northern-Greece) today and another 200,000 who live in Southern-Albania who are waiting to get their properties back from the greek government.

Arvanitas, the albanian dialect that Cams speak is very similiar to the old Albanian language but somewhat difficult to understand by the modern Albanian. Arvanitas has borrowed may words from greek and vice verca. I must agree that it is a very interesting dialect that needs more studying in order to understand its influence in todays' spoken greek. This albanian dialect doesn't sound funny to me (I am Cam from Cameria though), nor does greek. I think it's all about how often do you listen to a certain language.

There are some people who are used of offending others, so don't pay attention what they say.

Sorry greek guys, I absolutely don't want to offend you, but greek language does sound funny and it's not just me, everyone I know says the same thing. Regarding the geene pool that todays greeks belong to, I would say that the logic leads you to belive that it's a draw between albanian and turkish, maybe turkish more than albanian because they passed, stayed, married, "bred", etc,etc, in huge numbers for more than 500 years, for generations.

So, it's not even thinkable to try and find a "real greek" living today in Greece and everyone seems to agree with that. The question is if any real influence from the Africans who often "jumped" on the greek southern islands, has been passed on the greek language and geenes, as this would have been very interesting to study and catalog. It is a sure fact that this has happened, as people moved freely those days, but the question is at what degree? Is this the real reason that greeks have a darkeer complexion than italians or is their turkish geenes that make them look more like they come from Asia Minor? Is this African presence what gives greek language it's "funny" sounds? These are the real questions that need answering these days.

I love you all.

Not sure why you think Greeks are darker than Italians, but even so. What the hell is it with race purists these days? I am most definitely not claiming Greeks are genetically "pure", but I do wonder who thinks their own nation is. Brenus has a good point about whether Turks or Greeks are the most affected by that mix, but to actually argue that point we'd have to go down the road of bringing up nasty points in history. I am definitely not going to do that, as I wouldn't want to offend any Turkish member of the board and start arguing the specifics of the common history of our nations. So let's say we have been equally affected.

So fucking what..? Carlos honey, Greece is full of real Greeks. It's the cultural elements that make you who you are, not your genes. I don't see people taking DNA tests to determine what their ethnicity/nationality/allegience is. And a big percentage of the Greek population *does* come from Asia Minor, as there were numerous Greek communities there till relatively very recently. The sounds you mention sound funny to non-Greeks, because most people on this board speak either a romance or a germanic language and Greek is neither. The fact that both Greek and Turkish sound "funny" to you, doesn't mean they are "funny" in any similar ways.

To begin with, saying that a language "sounds funny" is a funny comment itself,to say the least.

Dear Calliope,

You can't immagine how much do I want to believe you, but unfortunately the reality is a little different from what you say. I must agree with you that Greece served as a big pot where turks, greeks, albanians and bulgarians intermarried and exchanged their geenes, but at the same time they echanged their culture too, their music too, their customs too, their costumes too, their dances too, their social behaviors too, their knowledge too, their coins too, etc, etc, and all these are nothing else but the 'cultural elements that make you who you are' as you nicely stated.

You should not be surprised when someone from the outside looks at greeks and turks and sees that they are no different than 'water and spring water', in all what greek and turkish means. I would give you a point in the languages because they are defenitely two different ones who borrowed a lot from each other, but still separate. The rest, well...sorry.

Just so you know, the entire Mediterannean shares common elements. I assume it goes the same for every other area. The English and the Scots have many common cultural elements by now (however you should know Turks and Greeks don't share the same currency, not sure where you got that), however you can't possibly say the Scots are English and the English are Scots. Spagniards are a mix of their own genetically (culturally too, in some cases), Italians as well; but you can't say they are not spanish and italian respectively.

"You should not be surprised when someone from the outside looks at greeks and turks and sees that they are no different than 'water and spring water', in all what greek and turkish means."

I am not surprised one bit. It is just as common in the western countries as it is to consider the Chinese and the Japanese one and the same because they are both asians with "funny" alphabets. However, it doesn't meake it any less uneducated and wrong.

I would be really interested in hearing what your own ethnicity is, Carlos, because it sounds like it must be the one and only one left genetically and culturally pure.