French vs German vs Spanish? Difficulty & Usefulness?

SORRY FOR THE MISTAKE ON THE MESSAGE THAT I POSTED JUST A WHILE AGO.

THE FIRST PARAGRAPH SHOULD GO LIKE THIS: "Yeah there maybe more or less 400M native speakers of Spanish. But we're talking about quality here not quantity."

INSTEAD OF: Yeah there maybe more or less 400M native speakersof Spanish. But we're talking about quantity here not quality.

SORRY AGAIN BECAUSE I'M ON A HURRY. THANKS EVERYONE!

"The hegemony of English and Spanish gets stronger in language courses.

It was published in "Le Monde" one of the most prestigious (if not the most) French newspapers. It's a French source and it's "Le Monde"... It's not just plain Internet chatting."

I don't think so this is just an opinion on the editorial section of the newspaper you just to tickle the readers so that the paper wouls get more marketable.

"Regarding the importance of languages in Science and Technology it's almost all English. The rest (including Spanish, French or German) hardly count at all. Even the French write their scientific papers in English!"

They write in English so that they can transmit it to Non-French speakers but it so silly to think that the French scientist would write their studies in English to be read by French speakers in France, Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, ans particularly French speaking African(who have little knowledge of English). They would write their findings in French first then English after all majority of the scientific studies come from English speaking world but not all because of the status of US. They publish/translate their works in English because of the huge number of English speakers as well as for profits for publishing companies. In the same way English speaking scientists translate their studies to French and other important languages. You know it's just a fuss created by francophobes and French detractors to make everyone believe that French is not dying. Why would a French or a German speaker write their studies in English when they are far more competent in their respective languages? Maybe when they work with English speaking scientists.

Scientific publishing and translation in Spanish is far less than French or even German, Italian, Russian because very few hispanics are interested in reading scientific articles idtead they prefer entertainments and there are very few Spanish speaking scientists who are involved in complex scientific studies. History tells that Spanish speaking world hate mechanical works(which would to industrialization and eventually progress).

As I said Spanish is no good in Europe because there isn't much to learn from it in studies because Spanish speaking world is not a knowledge center or powerhouse.

It's importance lies on the huge numbers of its speakers but I doubt if it will become a world lingua franca.

"You know it's just a fuss created by francophobes and French detractors to make everyone believe that French is not dying."

You mean " You know it's just a fuss created by francophobes and French detractors to make everyone believe that FRENCH IS DYING.", Gallophile?

My Gallophile states without blushing to death: "History tells that Spanish speaking world hate mechanical works which would to industrialization and eventually progress".


By the way, where are you from. You know I'm from Spain but what about you?

Once again and I apologise since I had intended not to carry on. Both Spain and Mexico are considered amongst the first 20 industrialised countries in the world. I know it comes as a shock to most of you and you'll say I've invented it all. Spain is actually the 8th economical power in the world (not bad for a country of 44 million) and it has been a very, very long time since agriculture became a secondary affair in these parts. We still manufacture the best olive oil in this part of the world. Manufacture means we get the olives and manufacture the oil in big, big machines.

We hate industrlalisation, whether light or heavy? Come around Catalonia, the Basque Country, The Valencian country or even Madrid, just to name a few. Did you know we had railroads and machinery at the same time than the rest of Europe, in the mid 19th century? Come on mate, just so many clichés like those who would have all Spaniards dark skinned with black hair and dancing flamenco, having siestas and feeding on tapas all day long. Get of your horse! According to some of you three quarters of Spain wouldn't look Spaniard, we're too much European and always have been.

The level of French among the African populations (outside the Francophone elite) is so high that it would make you scream. I've been there, I know! Sout American peasants speak the most beautiful Spanish in the world and not only in Peru (it's true my Indian friend that they speak pure Spanish in Peru.)

The fact that Spanish is still widely used in Northern Morocco, ex-Spanish Sahara, Equatorial Guinea, Fernando Poo islands, the Canary Islands, all in the African continent has never made francophiles too happy. After all, they have the feeling they must have a right to a continent, even if it's as poor. The rest has always been taken by English or Spanish. French colonists probably arrived too late. Like three centuries too late.
Yes, of course the Viets are all speaking French again and in Laos and everybody in Europe is speaking French if we were to believe what you say. But Spanish woulodn't be spoken in Africa or in Asia. Come of it!
And what about Portuguese, a language closely related to Spanish (and Spanish to Portuguese, of course) shall we make a list and realise it's more important than French whether in South America, huge colonies in Africa (Angola, Mozambique) or parts of Asia (official language of East Timor and still spoken in parts of the Asian mainland.)
The French are simply not interested. As I said they have the feeling they are the "first heirs" of Rome.
Regarding your "quality" against "quantity" comment it's so revolting I just won't stop. Simply because quantity probably means that the odds for quality are higher.

Check your Nobel prize list and check all the Spanish, Central or South Americans scientists and industrialised populatin; some working in their own countries and many in the USA, Canada or the rest of Europe, even France where they are very well considered. You'd also be surprised.

I agree in one thing. We work very hard but also find time for fun. It's a question of climate and warm blood; the more to the south you get, the warmest it can become although I've seen really hot Russians with vodka or without.

Que tengas un buen día y que te diviertas. Have a nice day and have fun.

If you carry on I'll just answer with a short sentence stating a few things invented by the Spaniards throughout the centuries.

The first submarine was invented by Isaac Peral, from Cartagena in Spain, in 1884.

It's a silly game and most countries of the world could play in the same sense.

Another silly fact regarding Spaniards and their contribution to sciences and the world as we know it:

Juan de la Cierva
Cierva, Juan de la , 1895-1936, Spanish aeronautical engineer, inventor of a rotary-wing aircraft called an autogiro. He flew his first autogiro in 1923 and crossed the English Channel in an improved model in 1928.

Bibliography: See his Wings of Tomorrow (1931).
Author not available, CIERVA, JUAN DE LA., The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition 2006
The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. Copyright 2006 Columbia University Press

Another non existing Spanish scientist:

Severo Ochoa de Albornoz (September 24, 1905 – November 1, 1993) was a Spanish-American biochemist, and the recipient of the 1959 Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine.

Severo Ochoa was born in Luarca (Asturias), Spain. His father was Severo Manuel Ochoa, a lawyer and businessman, and his mother, Carmen de Albornoz. His father died when Ochoa was seven and he and his mother moved to Málaga, where he attended school through high school. His interest in biology was stimulated by the publications of the Spanish neurologist and Nobel awardee Santiago Ramón y Cajal. In 1923, he went to the University of Madrid Medical School, where he hoped to work with Cajal, but Cajal retired. In 1929, he obtained his MD degree with honors. In 1931, Ochoa married Carmen Garcia Cobian, but they had no children.

From then until 1938, he held many positions and worked with many people at many places. From 1938 until 1941 he was Demonstrator and Nuffield Research Assistant at the University of Oxford. He then went to America, where he again held many positions at many universities. In 1942 he was appointed Research Associate in Medicine at the New York University School of Medicine and there subsequently became Assistant Professor of Biochemistry (1945), Professor of Pharmacology (1946), Professor of Biochemistry (1954), and Chairman of the Department of Biochemistry.

In 1956, he became an American citizen. In working at all these places, he learned much, all of which led him to his discovery. In 1959, Ochoa was awarded the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine for his work on the synthesis of RNA.

Ochoa continued research on protein synthesis and replication of RNA viruses until 1985, when he returned to Spain and gave advice to Spanish science policy authorities and scientists. Ochoa was also a recipient of U.S. National Medal of Science in 1979. Ochoa died in Madrid and a new research center that was planned in the 1970s, was finally built and named after Ochoa. The asteroid 117435 Severochoa is also named in his honour.

Well, I wish not to tell where I came from and I hope you'll understand that because I have a high regard for privacy. After all this is just an internet forum and it isn't a requirement to reveal one's name(as what others want in this forum) and the place where one came from. Please don't ask too much about personal questions on me(take this objectively, since we're educated) I myself hate asking personal questions about others especially if I haven't seen the person in flesh.

But that doesn't mean that I am hostile. Please don't get mistaken that I'm mad I'm just being direct but I know the limits of it. This is me, my personality.

I relly appreciate the way you present your views because you really make a thorough research before you post them and you really choose words that would not antagonize readers.

With regards to Portuguese, they hate being identified with Spaniards and a lot of them would prefer to hear that their language is more closely to Italian than Spanish. They hate to hear if people from other countries with no knowledge about Portugal or Brazil give an impression that their language is a dialect of Spanish just like the Catalonian they really get upset if outsiders remark that their language is a dialect of Spanish/Italain/French. Hispanic world has its identity and it's very unlikely Portugalic world that they will jump on the Hispanic bandwagon. And I don't believe that it is more important in Africa or in Asia than French. Only East Timor and Macau have Portuguese as official language but in SouthAm, it's so silly to say that French is more important there although French presence is very much alive in French Guiana.

In Spanish Sahara, the use of Spanish is in great decline because of Morocco and Mauritania. As for Equatorial Guinea, French became co-official language with Spanish there, uses CFA Franc and it's a full member of Francophonie. In other words Spanish is disappearing in Africa just like Italian(if the former Italian part of Somalia is excludedand maybe Eritrea) and German(in Namibia it's still spoken by long time German residents there) too. But the on the positive side there is no danger of Spanish to get extinct because Spanish is spoken nativley by more than a dozen countries.

By the way I'm neither an Hindu Indian nor American Indian. As far as I know a Catalonian would not endorse anything that has something to do with Non-Catalonians from other parts of Iberian Peninsula.

Hey Gallophile and From Spain!


Why get excited?
Each of our countries have different specificities, stories, cultures... Then accept and stop these dressing-downs...
I lived in the Basque country on horseback between France and Spain, I shall want to favor none of the sides, our countries are nearby, geographically close relations, it would be pity to create tensions between our 2 countries...

I'm Catalan born and bred and I love my Catalan language and culture over all but I do kind get of pissed off when our French (and francophiles) neighbours get on their high horse and pretend they are the best in the world and that Spain is some kind of third world country.

After all, we all know what they've done with our Catalan and Basque brothers and sisters language over there, on the other side of the "border". Needless to say Occitan or Breton are even worse of! Now my friend would be happy if all the Catalan or Basque spoken French instead of Spanish. Like Napoleon who made Catalan and French official on this side of the border in 1810! The idea was clear. Make Spanish disappear and then Catalan and then everybody would speak French. Ces Français sont toujours comme ça!

Nevertheless, I agree we also got a nice share from Spain but, frankly, to pretend the French language is more important than the Spanish Castillian language is laughable, nowadays.

Just how many people learn French in Catalonia or the Basque Country compared to Spanish?

Official European Union reports (not me) state that French is widely spoken amongst "middle aged" functionaries (civil servants) and Spanish more widely spoken amongst the younger generations; although there must be differences between Western and Eastern European countries.

German will never be popular enough because "it is too hard although not impossible" amongst Romance language speakers.

As a matter of fact, the great success of English is that it is a bridge between "Germanic" and "Romance" and Spanish is the simplest, at least phonetically speaking, Romance language. Furthermore, they have huge first speaking languages and great amounts of foreign language speakers.

I will, of course, always speak my Catalan first when I can and especially in Catalan speaking areas, but I can go around the world with English without needing an "interested" third party.

With Castilian Spanish I've got more than enough although I'm lucky and I also learnt French, Italian and Portuguese (and a bit of German, by the way!). You can't expect everybody to do that and France uses French as a means of political power (of course, like Spanish and English.) They have now decided to "invade" other Romance language influence territories and haven't realised yet that French has passed its better days as an international language.

I only pretend to know where he's from (he does write very early in the morning, quite a non native English speaker, and there must be a time difference; I would say somewhere in far eastern Europe) and he speaks of "privacy". God!

We are not speaking of France and Spain but of French and Spanish, quite a different issue altogether.

According to him, French would be thriving and Spanish declining! Northern Africans, Saharians and Guineans not only come to Spanish Universities (the elite) and see Spanish television but also immigrate to Spain by the hundreds of thousands. They mostly speak with an Andalusian accent!

Maybe our friend is paid by the Alliance Française. He went to the point of saying that Spain (and therefore Catalonia and the Basque Country) isn't industrialised and we'd be some kind of farming pre-industrial society with no scientists at all! He's obviously never been to Donosti (San Sebastian), Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia.... but also Buenos Aires, Santiago de Chile or Ciudad de México!

And what is that about Catalonians or Basques not endorsing the rest of the Iberian Peninsula or Portuguese saying Portuguese is closer to Italian? In politics that is called "intoxication".

What most educated Catalans or Basques will not endorse is official French or Spanish politics and "grandeur" or "grandeza" but you don't have to be a genius to know that all Catalans and Basques are fully bilingual in Spanish (except for our Basque and Catalan brothers in France who are more and more monolingual in French, or course!) and that we endorse knowledge and communication.

Well, after all, I did have a nice time and I'm glad to see that Basques and Catalans have quite good English compared to our nationless Francophile friend.

Portuguese the closest language to Italian...think again!

Portuguese is the badly-spoken Spanish, some say here in Peru.
Portuguese is one language, and Spanish is another one. That's it.

Well From Spain, I wonder if a true blooded Catalonian reads what you posted. I could make conclusion that you're not really a Catalonian but maybe a Castillan or Andalusian.

As I mentioned on my previous post Hispanic World hates mechanical works which would propel to industrialization and eventually progress. It seems so strange for me that a Non-Catalonian who resides in Catalonia is joining the Catalonian bandwagon when we all know that when it was integrated into Spain...

In Spain the industrialized area is in Catalonia because of the influence the French from the north and Italian the East. By the way, why did you not mention that Argentina is an industrialized country but instead Mexico? Is it because non-spanish immigrants and their descendants like Italians who came from Northern Italy(Lombardy, Liguria, and Piedmont the most industrialized parts of Italy) and Germans were the ones responsible for its industrialization not the because of Spaniards.

Those youngsters that speak Spanish whom you were talking about learn only the basics of the language such as greetings but I doubt if they can converse in Spanish. I'm sure you know the psyche of youngsters because we used to be like them and to them Spanish language is a fad to them not a necessities so they learn just the basics for entertainment. When they reach maturity and becamose professionals that's the time that they will realize what ideas/things to be picked up for growth and they will find out Spanish is not an ideal one because there is so little can be learned from its world. It's not a transmitter of knowledge but rather it's the other way around. You must have gotten the misinformation that more and more Europeans are switching to French/German/Italian from the internet not from EU report/studies or just a hearsay.

You're a westerner and you know should know the importance of privacy this is not the place to ask and reveal personal information since we're all strangers to each other and we don't even have an idea abou the looks of each other. If you choose reveal who or what you are and the details of your private life in this forum then go on I fully respect you and on the other hand respect me if I choose to be anonymous because it's my prerogative and it would not cause any damage on other people's lives.

I'm not being paid by Alliance Française to post messages and I have nothing against the Hispanic world. I post messages here to correct those misinformation which are actually myths and popular beliefs into true information. Why are you paid by Instituto Cervantes? That's why you were able to say that Alliance Française pays me.

Go to the Yahoo messenger and enter the French room and you'll find out that only a small fractions who chat there are not native French speaker the majority are near native French speakers(North Africans and from former French Africa) and non native French speakers of it. As opposed to Spanish chat room, virtaully all are native Spanish speakers. If you're in doubt use webcams to view them and headsets to prove that they speak and do not use google translator to post their message in French and do the same when you enter the Spanish chat room.

And please stop using the Portugalic world for the Hispanic interest to the world. They are unwilling after all. Guinea Bissau, Cape Verde, Sao Tome & Principe, and Mozambique are members of Francophonie as well as Lussophonia but not a member of La Hispanidad. Check for yourself the members of Francophonie at Wikipedia in English and Spanish if you have doubts with its official website to find out the non Francophone nations that are either full/associate members or have an observer status in the organization. Don't be surprised and get upset if one day Catalonia and Galicia join Francophonie instead of La Hispanidad. Just wait and see.

You mentioned that French Basques and Catalonians are monolingual in French. Well, thanks for the information. It's the same as admitting that French is more prestigious. Francophones and francophiles would be so happy to learn that from somebody who have somewhat an adverse feelings about anything that is French.

I didn't say that Italians and Portuguese are closer to each other than to Spanish.I said a number of Portuguese speakers have that opinion. It didn't originate from me but from them. Please read carefully the message.

The grandeur days of Spanish has not come and will never come. As for French it might have been eclipsed by English but at least it comes close to a second. Even German writer of the book about Germany the one that we find on public libraries. It stated there that German plays a less important role in international scene than French, Russian, and Spanish. In that order.

Well I have to be broad minded to understand those who enter into this forum who are living in virtual reality.

Je regrette et desolé pour mon opinion dans ce forum. C'est la verité! Merci bien pour ton temps!

You obviously are a very interested indeed party. Sóc fill i nét de catalans i parle sempre català a casa. This means I'm the son and grand-son of Catalans and I always speak Catalan at home. It doesn't matter at all whether you believe me or not. I know what I am.

You love Catalans not being proud of forming part of the Hispanic heritage and you also love Catalans and Basques in France being forbidden to learn their language at school. You call say "more prestige". Please give France some lessons regarding democracy and the right of people to learn their native or historic language at school and not being told they speak some kind of "patois".

In Catalan we say: "se't veu et cul" in Spanish "se te ve el culo" in French "on te voit le cul" and in English "you're showing your bloody arse or butt!" meaning we can all see your intentions. I think the right way to say it in English should be "arse hole!"

Industrialisation of Catalonia came from France or Italy? You are indeed a very ignorant man indeed and it would be like saying industrialisation came to France from England or Germany! This is Europe, you know! We all got industrialised at the same time and for the same reasons. Study some history.

Your French is quite faulty: it should be "Je regrette et je suis desolé pour..." It's more formal and sound much better. Your sentence, anyway, is quite poor French and could be written in a better fashion. I won't bother.

Of course, the French and the Francophiles are the only ones who can use the Italians, the Portuguese, the Catalans or the Basques for their French political interests in the world. Even the Vietnamese! Mon Dieu! Did you know that the greatest amount of tourists received in Portugal are from their neighbouring Spain? Have you read that Spanish language lessons are now compulsory in Brazil? You don't read, do you?

Of course we have native speakers from all over the world in Spanish chat rooms. The reasons is we have native speakers of Spanish from all over the world. That, obviously, isn't the case for French. There are more and more second language speakers of Spanish all over the world but you still don't seem to realise nor want to take note. Do you mean to say your African second language "francophones" have all personal computers when they have much greater problems (you know, the basics of life, like going to bed having had supper.)

You insist on your prejudices and that makes you a fool saying over and over again:

As I mentioned on my previous post Hispanic World hates mechanical works which would propel to industrialization and eventually progress.

I would suggest you went on tour in the Spanish speaking world and in most of Africa where you say French is spoken. Give us lessons about industrialisation after that. I, of course, know there are many problems in South America. After all, they are independent countries and we aren't always meddling into their affairs like the French do all over Africa and all over the world. It must be said that Spain is amongst the major contributors regarding foreign help in Spanish-speaking countries.

Regarding the history of Catalonia you have no idea whatsoever and I won't bother to detail.

Regarding being anonymous I still am and it's funny hearing you telling me I'm a liar about being Catalonian whilst we don't really know what you are. You could lie and say you're an Eskimo and I would probably believe you! Not that it matters.

By the way, I'm the father of a baby. Both my wife and I speak to him in Catalan although he will be fully bilingual in Spanish long before he learns English. We don't speak a word of Spanish at home. Regarding French, it'll all depend on his skills as a linguist.