stressed "or"

RedFox   Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:35 pm GMT
I peonounce stressed "or" actually like the word "are". Does anyone else do this?
Guest   Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:38 pm GMT
no. it's just you. You are the ONLY person in the world who talks like that.
Lazar   Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:40 pm GMT
I pronounce stressed "or" just like "ore", ["O@`].
Travis   Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:40 pm GMT
I myself distinctly pronounce stressed "or" and "are", as [O:R] and [a:R], but I do very frequently merge unstressed "or" and "are" as [R=].
RedFox   Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:44 pm GMT
<<no. it's just you. You are the ONLY person in the world who talks like that.>>

I'm certainly not. I'm 64 and have heard many people say it this way. I asking if there was anyone here in this forum who says it that way.
Travis   Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:47 pm GMT
(One note: I will also pronounce stressed "are" as [A:R], strangely more in informal speech than in formal speech.)
RedFox   Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:49 pm GMT
Just curious, what are all these odd symbols you people are using?
Travis   Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:08 pm GMT
These symbols are a transcription system for precisely marking down pronunciation (unlike trying to spell such out "phonetically", which is very inaccurate) named X-SAMPA. For more information on X-SAMPA, go to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA
RedFox   Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:48 pm GMT
<<These symbols are a transcription system for precisely marking down pronunciation (unlike trying to spell such out "phonetically", which is very inaccurate) named X-SAMPA. For more information on X-SAMPA, go to:>>

I'd probably more accurately mark down my pronunciation by spelling such out phonetically rather than using X-sampa due to the fact that I have no idea what the symbols mean.
RedFox   Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:26 pm GMT
I assume Lazar must not pronounce word-final "r" due to the fact that there is no [R] in his transcription of "or" while Travis has an [R] there.
RedFox   Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:30 pm GMT
If I've gotten the symbols correct, I pronounce both "or" and "are" as [A:R]. I'm not sure if I have the symbols right though.
Travis   Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:32 pm GMT
>>I assume Lazar must not pronounce word-final "r" due to the fact that there is no [R] in his transcription of "or" while Travis has an [R] there.<<

Actually, [@`] is the unstressed version of the General American "er" sound, corresponding to its stressed counterpart [3`]. The sound I write down as [R] or as [R=] for its syllabic counterpart (analogous to GA [3`] or [@`]) is distinct from such and does not exist in General American, which would have a sound more like [r\] in the place of said [R].
Lazar   Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:34 pm GMT
<<I assume Lazar must not pronounce word-final "r" due to the fact that there is no [R] in his transcription of "or" while Travis has an [R] there.>>

No, I do pronounce the "r" there. But I transcribe my pronunciation of "or" as a rhoticized diphthong, [O@`]. The [`] indicates the r-sound.
Travis   Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:39 pm GMT
>>If I've gotten the symbols correct, I pronounce both "or" and "are" as [A:R]. I'm not sure if I have the symbols right though.<<

Actually, you almost certainly do not have [R] there, as such is rather rare in English dialects, and I have not heard such in use outside Wisconsin myself. Considering that I have not heard of merger of stressed "or" and "are" here in Wisconsin, or anywhere in the Upper Midwest for that matter, I doubt you have [R] here. Consequently, you more likely have something like [A:r\] for such.

Note, however, that normally one does not mark vowel length when transcribing North American English dialects simply as a matter of convention, which would make the above [Ar\]. Vowel length in NAE dialects is purely allophonic in nature, conditioned solely by the consonants following vowels (if there are any). However, I do mark it for my own dialect simply because vowel length allophony is very strong in it and it is potentially distinctive in many cases in it due to a number of different phonological phenomena such as final devoicing.
RedFox   Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:34 am GMT
<<Actually, you almost certainly do not have [R] there, as such is rather rare in English dialects, and I have not heard such in use outside Wisconsin myself. Considering that I have not heard of merger of stressed "or" and "are" here in Wisconsin, or anywhere in the Upper Midwest for that matter, I doubt you have [R] here. Consequently, you more likely have something like [A:r\] for such.>>

Oh. That's what makes it even more confusing when attempting to learn X-sampa. The fact that some people here apparantly have "weird" r sounds. So your "r" sound is an unusual "r". I have [r\] as I have the usual "r" sound in the United States and thus [A:r\]. I'm curious as to what this [R] sounds like though. Is it a rolled r? tapped r? French r?

<<Note, however, that normally one does not mark vowel length when transcribing North American English dialects simply as a matter of convention, which would make the above [Ar\]. Vowel length in NAE dialects is purely allophonic in nature, conditioned solely by the consonants following vowels (if there are any).>>

Oh, so [:] when put after a vowel marks vowel length?

<<However, I do mark it for my own dialect simply because vowel length allophony is very strong in it and it is potentially distinctive in many cases in it due to a number of different phonological phenomena such as final devoicing.>>

Well, I sure have been learning a lot of new terms from visiting this forum. What the heck is final devoicing?