Here's some more information which I forgot to mention in my original posting but which might possibly shed some light on this topic. (I hope...)
Back in late June of this year (2005) I visited Eton and my entry to the school grounds happened to coincide with the beginning of a guided tour. This was on the afternoon after the last day of class. Anyway, our guide was an elderly lady who had taught at Eton for 38 years. When we entered the chapel she referred to a painting depicting the Virgin Mary (she pronounced it "Marey"). The first syllable sounded identical to "mare" (the female horse). RP uses the "square" vowel where general American uses an "a" as in "trap" in words like Mary and Pharaoh. (This is according to J.C. Wells).
I have, however, heaad the word "marry" pronounced with the 'trap' vowel on an English language cassette used by a cousin of mine in Greece to learn English. The programme (program) is called Linguarama. The cassetees date back to 1978. I borrowed only the cassettes and not the books and even the cassettes I just borrowed for the accent. (I am obviously already fluent in English). The speakers are an RP speaking man and woman (unless RP is not their native accent). The man sounds a bit more upper-RP than the woman (use of pre-vowel fricative 'r', final 'y' pronounced as in "kit", not "fleece").
I think RP distinguishes between Mary and marry and I've even been told by one English lady (she and her husband were kind enough to give me a ride from where the aforementoned cousin lives to another village in Crete) that "marry" is pronounced with the trap vowel. I don't thing Mary and marry are supposed to be homophones in RP. It might very well be that RP purposefully distinguishes between the two words in order to avoid any potential confusion.However, I would greatly appreciate it if someone sould clear this up for me. Thank you.
Incidentally, I correctly identified the husband as being from the south-west of England (there was a certain rhoticity to his accent). The wife spoke either RP or near-RP. She happened to be from the Midlands. The husband told me that I sounded like someone from his hometown who had attended Eton.
On another occasion, I was waiting on line (in queue) to get into a popular London nightclub called "Fabric". This was on Saturday night (well, actually very early Sunday morning) on 2 July 2005. I struck up a conversation with a couple of fellows behind me. The conversation pertained to the length of the queue and the amount of time we would have to wait to get in. These two young fellows had attended the concert in Hyde Park earlier that day. Anyway, one of them said to me: "Where are you from? You have a posh accent." I was extremely flattered. How I answered that question is further beyond the scope of this topic than the last two paragraphs have been so far...
There was also a young male chatterbox ahead of me also waiting to get in who struck up a conversation with these same two fellows (who somehow wound up slithering ahead of me). He had such a broad Cockney accent that he pronounced "Saturday" as "Sa?uhdie". The 't' was neither voiced (as in RP) nor tapped (as in GA) but rather came out as a glottal stop. The final syllable sounded more like "ie" (the antonym of "live") rather than day (as in day and night).
JC Wells does mention that even by liberal estimates only 10% of the population of England can be considered RP speakers. Some English people have literally told me that "no one" talks that way. Well, only after having spent a week in London and the sorrounding area did I realise just how bleak the situation is. You see, unlike the 'New York accent' (which today is only used by old people and macho Italian guys and pretty much limited to certain neighbourhoods), Cockney is EXTERMELY PERVASIVE in London. Also, its tentacles spread far and wide - way beyond the East End. To walk into a working class pub in a working class neighbourhood and to talk like Alec Guinness (Obi One Kanobi in Star Wars) is inviting very serious trouble (as in being savagely beaten to death). If you think I'm being overly dramatic you should walk into a working class pool bar outside cental London and start up a conversation with a group of Cockney skinheads playing pool using a U-RP accent and see the reaction you will get. You see, unlike GenAm (which is accepted by macho Italian guys in parts of the New York metro area) RP is NOT accepted by many working class people. You see, the US and Canada do NOT have an equivalent to RP. GA, the "correct" accent in the US, pretty much describes the way the average American speaks (about two-thirds of the population of the US). However, RP, the "correct" accent of the UK, is NOT the way the average Briton (or Englishman for that matter speaks). I'm not even sure if mass education in RP would help since the working classes tend to reject RP on purpose because they identify it with "the establishment", not with themselves. Many non-RP speakers are not necessarily people who CAN'T speak RP but rather people who WON'T speak RP. Many others cannot speak RP and wouldn't choose to speak it even if they could. It's just how the mentality is in Britain (and has been for the last 500 years or so).
Final comment: It would take an act of God to get even half of England (never mind ALL of BRITAIN to speak RP).
Back in late June of this year (2005) I visited Eton and my entry to the school grounds happened to coincide with the beginning of a guided tour. This was on the afternoon after the last day of class. Anyway, our guide was an elderly lady who had taught at Eton for 38 years. When we entered the chapel she referred to a painting depicting the Virgin Mary (she pronounced it "Marey"). The first syllable sounded identical to "mare" (the female horse). RP uses the "square" vowel where general American uses an "a" as in "trap" in words like Mary and Pharaoh. (This is according to J.C. Wells).
I have, however, heaad the word "marry" pronounced with the 'trap' vowel on an English language cassette used by a cousin of mine in Greece to learn English. The programme (program) is called Linguarama. The cassetees date back to 1978. I borrowed only the cassettes and not the books and even the cassettes I just borrowed for the accent. (I am obviously already fluent in English). The speakers are an RP speaking man and woman (unless RP is not their native accent). The man sounds a bit more upper-RP than the woman (use of pre-vowel fricative 'r', final 'y' pronounced as in "kit", not "fleece").
I think RP distinguishes between Mary and marry and I've even been told by one English lady (she and her husband were kind enough to give me a ride from where the aforementoned cousin lives to another village in Crete) that "marry" is pronounced with the trap vowel. I don't thing Mary and marry are supposed to be homophones in RP. It might very well be that RP purposefully distinguishes between the two words in order to avoid any potential confusion.However, I would greatly appreciate it if someone sould clear this up for me. Thank you.
Incidentally, I correctly identified the husband as being from the south-west of England (there was a certain rhoticity to his accent). The wife spoke either RP or near-RP. She happened to be from the Midlands. The husband told me that I sounded like someone from his hometown who had attended Eton.
On another occasion, I was waiting on line (in queue) to get into a popular London nightclub called "Fabric". This was on Saturday night (well, actually very early Sunday morning) on 2 July 2005. I struck up a conversation with a couple of fellows behind me. The conversation pertained to the length of the queue and the amount of time we would have to wait to get in. These two young fellows had attended the concert in Hyde Park earlier that day. Anyway, one of them said to me: "Where are you from? You have a posh accent." I was extremely flattered. How I answered that question is further beyond the scope of this topic than the last two paragraphs have been so far...
There was also a young male chatterbox ahead of me also waiting to get in who struck up a conversation with these same two fellows (who somehow wound up slithering ahead of me). He had such a broad Cockney accent that he pronounced "Saturday" as "Sa?uhdie". The 't' was neither voiced (as in RP) nor tapped (as in GA) but rather came out as a glottal stop. The final syllable sounded more like "ie" (the antonym of "live") rather than day (as in day and night).
JC Wells does mention that even by liberal estimates only 10% of the population of England can be considered RP speakers. Some English people have literally told me that "no one" talks that way. Well, only after having spent a week in London and the sorrounding area did I realise just how bleak the situation is. You see, unlike the 'New York accent' (which today is only used by old people and macho Italian guys and pretty much limited to certain neighbourhoods), Cockney is EXTERMELY PERVASIVE in London. Also, its tentacles spread far and wide - way beyond the East End. To walk into a working class pub in a working class neighbourhood and to talk like Alec Guinness (Obi One Kanobi in Star Wars) is inviting very serious trouble (as in being savagely beaten to death). If you think I'm being overly dramatic you should walk into a working class pool bar outside cental London and start up a conversation with a group of Cockney skinheads playing pool using a U-RP accent and see the reaction you will get. You see, unlike GenAm (which is accepted by macho Italian guys in parts of the New York metro area) RP is NOT accepted by many working class people. You see, the US and Canada do NOT have an equivalent to RP. GA, the "correct" accent in the US, pretty much describes the way the average American speaks (about two-thirds of the population of the US). However, RP, the "correct" accent of the UK, is NOT the way the average Briton (or Englishman for that matter speaks). I'm not even sure if mass education in RP would help since the working classes tend to reject RP on purpose because they identify it with "the establishment", not with themselves. Many non-RP speakers are not necessarily people who CAN'T speak RP but rather people who WON'T speak RP. Many others cannot speak RP and wouldn't choose to speak it even if they could. It's just how the mentality is in Britain (and has been for the last 500 years or so).
Final comment: It would take an act of God to get even half of England (never mind ALL of BRITAIN to speak RP).