Does anyone have the etymology for this word? Does it come from the sound that certain primates make?
"ape"
For some reason, some claim that this word includes humans when in actual common usage it refers to large nonhuman primates.
It's an Anglo-Saxon word, with cognates in other Germanic languages. I'm not sure what its ultimate origin is though. It can include humans in a metaphoric sense: "He's such an ape!" (badly behaved, poor hygiene, etc.)
SpaceFlight, you really feel a need to revive this old argument?
<<For some reason...>>
The reason that "ape" includes humans is the fact that humans belong to the same clade as all the other apes: Hominoidea. There is no justification for a taxon that includes all hominoids except humans.
And then, of course, you would say, "Why don't these biologists just use the term 'hominoid' then, and stop contravening common usage?" To which I would reply, "Why should they have to?" Spaceflight, in our previous argument, you showed a resolute unwillingness to recognize any distinction between common and specialized vocabulary. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge the fact that in common usage, the terms "ape" and "animal" tend to exclude humans. There's nothing wrong with this usage, because in common speech, we often have need to refer to "all hominoids except humans", or "all members of Animalia except humans". But to impose this usage on scientists, who have *different* needs, would be absurd. Sure, I suppose that scientists could use the term "hominoid" instead of "ape", but how would you suggest that they refer to all the members of Animalia? "Animals and humans"?
You have to realize that common usage and specialized usage can conflict, and that this is okay.
Anyway, "ape" comes from Proto-Germanic "apan". I've never seen anything about an onomatopoeic origin.
<<For some reason...>>
The reason that "ape" includes humans is the fact that humans belong to the same clade as all the other apes: Hominoidea. There is no justification for a taxon that includes all hominoids except humans.
And then, of course, you would say, "Why don't these biologists just use the term 'hominoid' then, and stop contravening common usage?" To which I would reply, "Why should they have to?" Spaceflight, in our previous argument, you showed a resolute unwillingness to recognize any distinction between common and specialized vocabulary. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge the fact that in common usage, the terms "ape" and "animal" tend to exclude humans. There's nothing wrong with this usage, because in common speech, we often have need to refer to "all hominoids except humans", or "all members of Animalia except humans". But to impose this usage on scientists, who have *different* needs, would be absurd. Sure, I suppose that scientists could use the term "hominoid" instead of "ape", but how would you suggest that they refer to all the members of Animalia? "Animals and humans"?
You have to realize that common usage and specialized usage can conflict, and that this is okay.
Anyway, "ape" comes from Proto-Germanic "apan". I've never seen anything about an onomatopoeic origin.
<<I've never seen anything about an onomatopoeic origin.>>
Okay, here's the quote that suggested that it might have an onomatopoeic origin:
<<"Ape" (Old Eng. apa; Dutch aap; Old Ger. affo; Welsh epa; Old Czech op) is a word of uncertain origin and is possibly an onomatopoetic imitation of animal chatter.>>
Okay, here's the quote that suggested that it might have an onomatopoeic origin:
<<"Ape" (Old Eng. apa; Dutch aap; Old Ger. affo; Welsh epa; Old Czech op) is a word of uncertain origin and is possibly an onomatopoetic imitation of animal chatter.>>
Name me one primate -- besides humans -- that makes the sound "ape". 'Cause I've watched a lot of nature shows, and I've missed it....
Well the modern day version "ape" [eIp] wouldn't accurately reflect it due the Great Vowel Shift. However, in Old English the word was something like [a:pa] and Dutch "aap" is probably [ap].
> Name me one primate -- besides humans -- that makes the sound "ape". 'Cause I've watched a lot of nature shows, and I've missed it....
Grape Ape? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape_Ape)
Grape Ape? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape_Ape)