Language Learning/Romance Languages
Are the Romance Languages closer to one another than most of the world's other major languages? For instance, is it easier for a person who's mother tongue is one Romance language to learn another? Let's say someone who natively speaks Italian to learn Spanish/French versus someone who's native tongue is English to learn German/Dutch, or Chinese to learn Japanese, etc.
Also, which two languages from different language groups are the closest? Could it be English and French?
I think it's obvious that it's easier to learn a language of the same family
I would say yes, Romance languages are more closely related. They're certainly more related to each other than English is to German. Chinese and Japanese aren't actually related languages, though Japanese did borrow many words from Chinese, and Japanese writing is derived from Chinese writing. But a Japanese learning Chinese will indeed have a tougher time than a Spaniard learning Italian.
On the other hand, I hear that the Scandinavian languages are even more closely related than the Romance languages are, and that Norwegians, Danes, and Swedes can all understand each other, although not 100%. (However, Finnish is a completely unrelated language.) Such mutual intelligibility is rare among the major Romance languages.
I have no idea how easy it is for a German to learn Dutch or vice-versa, but my guess is that it's comparable to a speaker of a Romance language learning another Romance language.
- Kef
I've read in many instances that Slavic languages have greater mutual intelligibility than all of the other European language families.
<<Also, which two languages from different language groups are the closest? Could it be English and French? >>
Yes, French and English is a good example, two languages from different language groups but close in the vocabulary and also the grammar.
@furrykef
From my experience many Dutch are able to speak German, and as a German you can understand the basics of written Dutch, as a lot of words are related.
I would agree with the statement about Dutch speaking German. There are some words that Germans fumble in Dutch, though, Shibboleths, I guess. This words were used to "catch" Germans during WWII according to the late Charles Berlitz and a Dutch aquaintance.
I
" Yes, French and English is a good example, two languages from different language groups but close in the vocabulary and also the grammar. "
I don't think so. English and French are two VERY different languages. The only fact that one (english) has borrowded a part of its vocabulary from french/and/latin.
This shared vocabuary is of latin origin, so also found in other romance language, it doesn't make french closer to English than say, Spanish.
the grammar is completly different - and the pronounciation canno't be more.
<This shared vocabuary is of latin origin, so also found in other romance language, it doesn't make french closer to English than say, Spanish.>
Uh, yes, English is still much closer to French than it is to Spanish. Not just through Latin roots, but direct loanwords that have gone back and forth over the years because of the proximity of the countries. Spanish and English never shared this tradition.
" Uh, yes, English is still much closer to French than it is to Spanish. "
Mmm...English still light years form both languages.
"Not just through Latin roots"
English has germanic roots, not latin! It just had integrated words form romance language.
" but direct loanwords that have gone back and forth over the years because of the proximity of the countries."
English used to envy their southerner neighbours - and so adopted french words. It doesn't make the language close to each other. one french word used in English still is a french word - the English doublet still is germanic.
"Spanish and English never shared this tradition."
English had copied french, but not the inverse. from a french point of view there is no link between french and English since the word adoption has been in one way only. the English words used nowadays in French (as in Italian or Spanish) are more due to the American influence than the English one - proximity doesn't played in that way.
English and French grammar are very similar. As are the vocabularies. The Norman invasion lead to a direct influence on the development of English. Sure the languages are closer to other languages in their families, but for two languages in different groups, they share a lot in common.
"English and French grammar are very similar. As are the vocabularies. The Norman invasion lead to a direct influence on the development of English. Sure the languages are closer to other languages in their families, but for two languages in different groups, they share a lot in common. "
we just have to translate word by word this sentence to see that French grammar has few to see with english one - and then, even if in some case the vocabulary is coming from french in both cases, the english form is organised in a very different way.
"Anglais et Français grammaire sont très similaire. Ainsi sont les vocabulaires. La Normande invasion mêne a une directe influence sur le developement de Anglais. Sur les langues sont proche-plus de autre langues dans leur familles, mais pour deux languages dans different groupes, elles partage un gros en commun."
this word by word grammar is very confuse for a french speaker, and close to unintelligibility. the verbs are not conjugated. the word order noun/adjective is inversed, a lot of pronouns diseapear, the genders doesn't exist, etc...
it is not without reasons that in some (rare) sentences with only latinate words, or groups of words in English - the french version is systematically reversed :
ex: SIDA and AIDS
<this word by word grammar is very confuse for a french speaker, and close to unintelligibility. the verbs are not conjugated. the word order noun/adjective is inversed, a lot of pronouns diseapear, the genders doesn't exist, etc... >
Well of course if you don't conjugate verbs and add in the subtle nuisances, it will be unintelligible.
The point is that the two share a lot of vocabulary and they're both SVO languages. It still stands that French and English share a lot for two languages that are in different groups. The French influence on English is as great as any other language.
" Well of course if you don't conjugate verbs and add in the subtle nuisances, it will be unintelligible. "
Yes, a language in which verbs are (almost) not conjugated, where the word order is inverse, and where the pronoums doesn't exist is VERY differnt gramatically.
Subject - verb - object is not a specificity of French among the other romance language. and this order is not even always followed (ex: je vais te le dire = I will go you it to say)... so close in grammar and vocabulary !...