Traduction d'un dialogue en vieil-anglais

— Hunta ic eom.
— Je suis chasseur.

— Hwæs ?
— De qui ?

— Cincges.
— Du roi.

— Hu begæst þu cræft þinne ?
— Comment exerces-tu to métier ?

— Ic brede me max & sette hig on stope gehæppre, & getihte hundas mine þæt wildeor hig ehton, oþþæt hig becuman to þam nettam unforsceawodlice & þæt hig swa beon begrynodo, & ic ofslea on þam maxum.
— Je tisse mes filets & les tends en dû lieu, & j'excite mes chiens à poursuivre le gibier pour qu'il tombe dans les filets par mégarde, se faisant ainsi prendre au piège & je les abats dans les rêts.

— Ne canst þu huntian buton mid nettum ?
— Ne sais-tu point chasser sans filet ?

— Gea, butan nettium huntian ic mæg.
— Si ! Je sais chasser sans filet.

— Hu ?
— Comment fais-tu ?

— Mid swiftum hundum ic betæce wildeor.
— Je poursuis le gibier avec des chiens rapides.

— Hwilce wildeor swyþost gefehst þu ?
— Quel gibier constitue tes prises ?

— Ic gefeo heortas & baras & rann & rægan & hwildon haran.
— Je prends cerfs, sangliers, daims, chevreuils & lièvres.

— Wære þu todæg huntnoþe ?
— As-tu chassé ce jour ?

— Ic næs, forþam sunnandæg ys, ac gyrstandæg ic wæs on huntunge.
— Non car nous sommes dimanche, mais hier j'étais à la chasse.

It is possible to undertsnad the (this) Old English, but this is with some knowledge of dutch and german.

For example:

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>> Mid swiftum hundum = avec des chiens rapides. <<

(The word order in the sentence isn't always the same)

Mid = Mit (german) = with
swiftum = swift (english ) +um probably the dative suffix after "with"
Hundum = Hund (german ) = dog +um maybe the plural, and something with the case as well.
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>> Cincges = Du roi <<

How can't you understand this? This is exactly as modern english!!

C = K
cg = g
es = genitive as is written in modern english 's : king's
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>>Hunta ic eom.
— Je suis chasseur. <<

Hunter I am (modern english) of course now it's more logic to say as in the word order of french: I am hunter
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>> — Ic næs, forþam sunnandæg ys, ac gyrstandæg ic wæs on huntunge.
— Non car nous sommes dimanche, mais hier j'étais à la chasse.<<

The old english has a quite dutch mixed with english feeling I think. I will translate it in dutch (sorry for mistakes, a dutch can correct it if you would like) :

ik niet, omdat het zondag is, maar gisteren was ik op jacht.

You can see the modern english word order in the >> gyrstandæg ic wæs<< and the dutch / german one in the >>forþam sunnandæg ys,<<
huntunge is as modern english

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I can immeditatly see those connections and from where those words and grammatical strcutres are, but I think that without the translation I wouldn't be able. So, to be able to read this old english, I must learn it. I would like to know of what era this language is?

>>>>Cincges = Du roi <<

How can't you understand this? This is exactly as modern english!! <<

It looks nothing like modern English and BARELY like the word King's. It looks like it should be pronounced like the word singes, which has a different meaning of course.

There are a few words, though, that are recognisable as you point out but not enough to make sense of whole sentences.

>>It looks nothing like modern English and BARELY like the word King's. It looks like it should be pronounced like the word singes, which has a different meaning of course.<<

The sound "s" or "k" for the written "c" both are ocurring so it's not ncessary to have great inspiration to consider that cincges can be pronounced kings!!! I agree, it would be possible : "sincges" as well, but in the context this would be without sense.I'm considering the possibiliyt that the cg is necessary to make the modern english sound ng (not the more like "sh" sound. )

If you know how the genitive case is constructed and function, it's not difficult to understand this -es.

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>>There are a few words, though, that are recognisable as you point out but not enough to make sense of whole sentences.<<

I expect that if we would read more of this language, with a translation, we would be soon able to make sense of it without the modern translation. it depend of what languages you can speak, therefore use, to inetrpret the text. For sure it's necessary : englsih, dutch and german. Maybe scandinavian such as danish would help as well, but as I don't speak this languages at all I can't assess this.

>>The sound "s" or "k" for the written "c" both are ocurring so it's not ncessary to have great inspiration to consider that cincges can be pronounced kings!!! <<

Not in English, at least not that I know. In English, "ci-" is pronounced "si-" and I can't think of any exception where it might be "ki-". Let me know if you can come up with such a word.

>>I agree, it would be possible : "sincges" as well, but in the context this would be without sense.<<

But there is no context if there is no comprehension. ;-)

>>I'm considering the possibiliyt that the cg is necessary to make the modern english sound ng (not the more like "sh" sound. ) <<

I don't see where such a "sh" sound would arise. "-inges" (sounds like "injes") and "-ings" are quite distinct.

Toujours pas de traduction ?

greg,

I will translte it in dutch and german for you ( ducth and german people can correct my msitakes after if they want). But I havn't time now, as we're going cycling. i will translate it in the next days.

Guest,

"c" is often as "k" preceding vowels, although you're correct, not with "i". But, because it's often "k" it is possible to imagine it to be this sound.Probably such pronunciations / spelling have changed during the centuries. I don't know phonetic, linguistic so I must guess this things.

The context to which I referred was the converstaion so, whose hunter are you? The king's. I suppose it would be possible to be the singer's hunter LOL!!!

PS the "sh" sound I was thinking about french. The "c" I was thinking about dutch and german who have much lesser "c" and frequently "k".

If you look to the text, there aren't letters K, so maybe it hasn't entered this old english until later, but was written "c".

Bye, I have to go cycling now, my family are fed up of must wait for me !!! LOL!!

>>The context to which I referred was the converstaion so, whose hunter are you? The king's. I suppose it would be possible to be the singer's hunter LOL!!! <<

Yes, but an English speaker might not have even got that far. Even though "ic" resembles "ich" in German, the word order made it hard. Also, "cincges" had no article (the) or possessive. To be honest, I relied solely on the French.

I wonder how "hunta" came to be "hunter" and if other such nouns ended in -a rather than with an -er sound.

>>Some people still talk like that. Like how blacks say they're gangstas instead of gangsters. <<

But that's due to a later British influence on American English when nonrhotic English finally came about. Before that, when America was settled, English was rhotic so the gangsteR pronunciation predated the "gangsta" pronunciation.

According to Wikipedia, nonrhotic pronunciations became widespread around the 18th century...

"The English spelling uses the digraph er to represent a Hindi sound close to the English schwa. Loss of coda /r/ apparently became widespread in southern England during the 18th century; John Walker uses the spelling ar to indicate the broad A of aunt in his 1775 dictionary and reports that card is pronounced "caad" in 1791 (Labov, Ash, and Boberg 2006: 47)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotic_and_non-rhotic_accents#Development_of_non-rhotic_accents

1. Old english
2. french
3. dutch
4. german
5. english

As dutch, german and english are foreign languages for me, please correct my mistakes if you would like.
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— Hunta ic eom.
— Je suis chasseur.
-- Ik ben jager
-- Ich bin Jäger
-- I am hunter

— Hwæs ?
— De qui ?
-- Wiens?
-- Wessen?
-- Whose?

— Cincges.
— Du roi.
-- Van de koning
-- Des Königs
-- The king's

— Hu begæst þu cræft þinne ?
— Comment exerces-tu to métier ?
-- Hoe voer jij jouw beroep uit?
-- Wie führst du deinen Beruf aus?
-- How you exercise your craft?


— Ic brede me max & sette hig on stope gehæppre, & getihte hundas mine þæt wildeor hig ehton, oþþæt hig becuman to þam nettam unforsceawodlice & þæt hig swa beon begrynodo, & ic ofslea on þam maxum.

— Je tisse mes filets & les tends en dû lieu, & j'excite mes chiens à poursuivre le gibier pour qu'il tombe dans les filets par mégarde, se faisant ainsi prendre au piège & je les abats dans les rêts.

--Ik brei mijn netten en zet hun op de plaats, wek mijn honden op om het wild te achtervolgen zodat hij onvoorzien in de netten valt & dat hij zo betrapt wordt, en ik slacht hem in de netten.

--Ich webe meine Netze & spanne sie im Ort, & rege ich meinen Hunden auf um das Wild zu verfolgen, damit es in der Netze unvorhergesehen fällt, indem es sich in der Falle nehmen läßt, und ich erschlage ihm im Netze.

--I weave my nets and spread them in the place, & I excite my dogs to follow the game for that it will unforeseen fall in the nets, so doing snaring them & I slay them in the trap.


— Ne canst þu huntian buton mid nettum ?
— Ne sais-tu point chasser sans filet ?
-- Kun je niet jagen zonder net?
-- Kanst du nicht ohne Netz jagen?
-- Can't you hunt without a net?

— Gea, butan nettium huntian ic mæg.
— Si ! Je sais chasser sans filet.
-- Ja, zonder net kan ik jagen.
-- Ja, ohne Netz kann ich jagen
-- Yes, I can hunt without net.

— Hu ?
— Comment fais-tu ?
-- Hoe?
-- Wie?
-- How?

— Mid swiftum hundum ic betæce wildeor.
— Je poursuis le gibier avec des chiens rapides.
-- Met snelle honden volg ik het wild.
-- Mit schnelle Hunden folge ich das Wild.
-- With swift dogs I pursue the game.

— Hwilce wildeor swyþost gefehst þu ?
— Quel gibier constitue tes prises ?
-- Welk wild vang jij? / Uit welk wild bestaat de vangst?
-- Welches Wild fängst du? / Welches Wild gibt's im Fang?
-- Which game you trap? / Of which game constitute the catch?

— Ic gefeo heortas & baras & rann & rægan & hwildon haran.
— Je prends cerfs, sangliers, daims, chevreuils & lièvres.
-- Ik neem hertebokken, wilde zwijn, hert, ree en wilde hasen
-- Ich nehme Bock, Keiler, Hirsche, Reh & wilde Hasen.
-- I take stags, wild boar, deer, roe-deer & wild hares.

— Wære þu todæg huntnoþe ?
— As-tu chassé ce jour ?
-- Was jij vandaag aan het jachten?
-- Warst du Heute am jagen?
-- Were you hunting today?

— Ic næs, forþam sunnandæg ys, ac gyrstandæg ic wæs on huntunge.
— Non car nous sommes dimanche, mais hier j'étais à la chasse.
-- Ik niet, omdat het zondag is, maar gisteren was ik op jacht.
-- Ich nicht, weil es Sonntag ist, aber gestern war ich auf dem Jagd.
-- I wasn't, because it's sunday, but yesterday I was hunting.

Hi Guest,

>>Also, "cincges" had no article (the) or possessive. To be honest, I relied solely on the French.<<



It hadn't the article, it's true, but it had the possessive: this was in the form of the genitive case "-es" . I guess that the word king would be "cincg" so "of the king" --> cincges. This is very similar with the modern english genitive (possessive) 's.

Not only the genitive case can be found in this text, but very evident is the dative as well, after "with" ("mid") and after "on" when net, trap ("max") get the suffix +um --> maxum.

Of course I relied on the french as well, but with this translation I can see sufficnetly of the Old English for understand it and recognise the most of words / structures.

Like I wrote, you must know dutch/german as well as modern english. (My opinion).German is useful for the cases and the verbs, such as the 1st person +e what you can find in "Ic brede" and "sette" and the 2nd person +st for example "begæst" and "canst". Latin can help you with the cases also if you can't speak german.
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>> I wonder how "hunta" came to be "hunter" and if other such nouns ended in -a rather than with an -er sound.<<

i'm french-speaker, and at school I'm learning british english, so I've learned to pronounce the non-rhotic evrsion. Therefore, it wasn't difficult to immediatly guess "hunta" to be "hunter". Anyway, after I've learned german (and little bit Latin, but I gave it up, unfortunatly) I'm accustommed to expect all sort of suffix / declensions etc.. but nevertheless still to recognise the word. The stem, hunt, doesn't change so it's why this wasn't mysterious.

Salut Pauline et bravo pour cette traduction multilingue !

Le dialogue est tiré d'un ouvrage intitulé « Colloquium » dont on pense que l'auteur est Ælfric, l'abbé d'Eynsham. Le texte aurait été rédigé vers la fin du Xe s.

Hi greg

Thank you for the infos about the text - I wanted to know those things :-)