European Portugues sounds to me wery different from Brazilian version.
If I would learn European version would I be able to understan Brazilian?
If I would learn European version would I be able to understan Brazilian?
Question about Brazilian and European Portugues
Yes of course. If Dutch and Afrikaans speakers can easily understand each other using their respecive speeches then I'm so sure that you would be able to communicate with the Brazilians using Continental Portuguese.
The differences between the two are narrower than between Dutch and Afrikaans.
The differences between the two are narrower than between Dutch and Afrikaans.
You are comparing two dialectal norms of a language, Portuguese (brazilian and european), with two separate languages, Dutch and Afrikaans.
I think you should make the analogy with English, american and british.
I think you should make the analogy with English, american and british.
You might as well throw in Spaniard and Latin American Spanish while your at it.
<< You are comparing two dialectal norms of a language, Portuguese (brazilian and european), with two separate languages, Dutch and Afrikaans.
I think you should make the analogy with English, american and british. >>
If you're well informed, then you should have known that Afrikaans is a derivative of the Dutch language.
I'm talking about mutual intelligibility. Now if speakers Afrikaans (now a separate language) can communicate with the Dutch speakers easily then more so between the Portuguese and Brazilians whose respective speeches' differences are narrower.
I think you should make the analogy with English, american and british. >>
If you're well informed, then you should have known that Afrikaans is a derivative of the Dutch language.
I'm talking about mutual intelligibility. Now if speakers Afrikaans (now a separate language) can communicate with the Dutch speakers easily then more so between the Portuguese and Brazilians whose respective speeches' differences are narrower.
>"You might as well throw in Spaniard and Latin American Spanish while your at it."<
The differences are extremely minimal. It mostly involves petty difference between grammar and words, which both Latin-Americans and Spaniards would still understand eachother to a great extent. All of this is greatly owed to The Spanish Royal Academy (La Real Academia Española) for maintaining a standard / neutral spanish everywhere spanish was spoken in the early 18th century to the present-day.
The differences are extremely minimal. It mostly involves petty difference between grammar and words, which both Latin-Americans and Spaniards would still understand eachother to a great extent. All of this is greatly owed to The Spanish Royal Academy (La Real Academia Española) for maintaining a standard / neutral spanish everywhere spanish was spoken in the early 18th century to the present-day.
Well, the differences between the speeches of Brazilian and Portuguese will narrow nowadays. Thanks to the modern means of communication both will be exposed and get familiarized with each other's speech.
At first, they may find each other's speeches peculiar but soon they will get used to it.
At first, they may find each other's speeches peculiar but soon they will get used to it.
European Portugues sounds to me wery different from Brazilian version.
If I would learn European version would I be able to understan Brazilian?
Yes.
but the opposite might not be true.
Portuguese people (usually) understand Brazilian Portuguese because
1. Brazilian Portuguese vowels are always pronounced and not reduced to shwa's
2. Brazilian Pronunciation is closer to classical (15/16th century Portuguese)
3. Brazilians spoke more slowly
4. the Brazilian Portuguese is present in Portugal (they love Brazilian tv series, Brazilian music), they like to imitate it, using Brazilian expressions, slangs...(but some people hate this and have hostile feelings towards Brazil)
Brazilians normally don't understand Continental Portuguese because of
1. great differences in phonetics (Portuguese people speak fast and don't pronounce all the vowels)
2. total lack of exposure (Portuguese music is not listened to in Brazil, Portuguese films/series are virtually never shown there, so they are normally dubbed into Brazilian)
3. ignorance (Brazilians don't ''hate'' Portugal, they ignore it, Portugal is remembered in history classes as a colonizer country and that's most Brazilians known of it; Brazilians are less related to Portugal than Mexicans are to Spain; most Brazilians visit Italy/UK/France rather than Portugal when they travel to Europe).
4. according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, most Brazilians can more easily understand Latin American Spanish than Continental Portuguese.
If I would learn European version would I be able to understan Brazilian?
Yes.
but the opposite might not be true.
Portuguese people (usually) understand Brazilian Portuguese because
1. Brazilian Portuguese vowels are always pronounced and not reduced to shwa's
2. Brazilian Pronunciation is closer to classical (15/16th century Portuguese)
3. Brazilians spoke more slowly
4. the Brazilian Portuguese is present in Portugal (they love Brazilian tv series, Brazilian music), they like to imitate it, using Brazilian expressions, slangs...(but some people hate this and have hostile feelings towards Brazil)
Brazilians normally don't understand Continental Portuguese because of
1. great differences in phonetics (Portuguese people speak fast and don't pronounce all the vowels)
2. total lack of exposure (Portuguese music is not listened to in Brazil, Portuguese films/series are virtually never shown there, so they are normally dubbed into Brazilian)
3. ignorance (Brazilians don't ''hate'' Portugal, they ignore it, Portugal is remembered in history classes as a colonizer country and that's most Brazilians known of it; Brazilians are less related to Portugal than Mexicans are to Spain; most Brazilians visit Italy/UK/France rather than Portugal when they travel to Europe).
4. according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, most Brazilians can more easily understand Latin American Spanish than Continental Portuguese.
''Well, the differences between the speeches of Brazilian and Portuguese will narrow nowadays. Thanks to the modern means of communication both will be exposed and get familiarized with each other's speech. ''
this is not true
99% of Brazil's population has never heard a Portuguese person speaking.
Most of them would ask: ''Which language is this?'' if they came across a Portuguese song or a Portuguese TV channel. that's why 2 Portuguese soap operas (Morangos com Açúcar and another one) had to be dubbed into brazilian Portuguese in order to be shown on Brazilian Public Tv station.
Portuguese think of Brazilian Portuguese as either 1. ''Portuguese spoken w/ bad grammar''; or 2. ''Brasileiro'' (''Brazilian language'')
Brazilians don't find Continental Portuguese easy to understand and they call it ''Lusitano'' (Lusitan language)
Brazilian Portuguese language is regulated by ''Academia Brasileira de Letras'' which was founded to copy the French Academy, not the ''Portuguese academy''.
Brazilian Portuguese and Continental Portuguese have become distant because of:
1. Portugal's not having invested in Brazil education during colonial times
(unlike Spain that opened many universities in its colonies, 1st universities in Brazil were opened after the independence)...so the language spoken in colony and Portugal have taken different ways
2. no unifying power (like Spanish academia)...that's why there's two spellings, and two grammar norms of Portuguese:
''Quem ama você?''
means
1. Who loves you? in ''Brazil''
2. Who(m) do you love? in Portugal ;)
this is not true
99% of Brazil's population has never heard a Portuguese person speaking.
Most of them would ask: ''Which language is this?'' if they came across a Portuguese song or a Portuguese TV channel. that's why 2 Portuguese soap operas (Morangos com Açúcar and another one) had to be dubbed into brazilian Portuguese in order to be shown on Brazilian Public Tv station.
Portuguese think of Brazilian Portuguese as either 1. ''Portuguese spoken w/ bad grammar''; or 2. ''Brasileiro'' (''Brazilian language'')
Brazilians don't find Continental Portuguese easy to understand and they call it ''Lusitano'' (Lusitan language)
Brazilian Portuguese language is regulated by ''Academia Brasileira de Letras'' which was founded to copy the French Academy, not the ''Portuguese academy''.
Brazilian Portuguese and Continental Portuguese have become distant because of:
1. Portugal's not having invested in Brazil education during colonial times
(unlike Spain that opened many universities in its colonies, 1st universities in Brazil were opened after the independence)...so the language spoken in colony and Portugal have taken different ways
2. no unifying power (like Spanish academia)...that's why there's two spellings, and two grammar norms of Portuguese:
''Quem ama você?''
means
1. Who loves you? in ''Brazil''
2. Who(m) do you love? in Portugal ;)
But educated people from bothe Brazil and Portugal understand each other.
Does this mean that Dutch and Afrikaans speakers are likely understand each other more easily than Brazilian and Portuguese?
Look, Afrikaans has deviate from Dutch so much that it is now considered as a separate language. It has discarded those complex inflections, simplified the grammar and pronounciation, lastly it added to its lexicon borrowed from other languages that are not found in Dutch lexicon.
The only differences between Brazilian and Portuguese are in vocabulary; spelling in words such as "acto/ato",optimo/otimo; the use of vowel accents; minor differences in syntax.
In addition, Portuguese and Brazilian signed an agreement to make the ortography of both variants uniform and to prevent splitting.
Does this mean that Dutch and Afrikaans speakers are likely understand each other more easily than Brazilian and Portuguese?
Look, Afrikaans has deviate from Dutch so much that it is now considered as a separate language. It has discarded those complex inflections, simplified the grammar and pronounciation, lastly it added to its lexicon borrowed from other languages that are not found in Dutch lexicon.
The only differences between Brazilian and Portuguese are in vocabulary; spelling in words such as "acto/ato",optimo/otimo; the use of vowel accents; minor differences in syntax.
In addition, Portuguese and Brazilian signed an agreement to make the ortography of both variants uniform and to prevent splitting.
''But educated people from bothe Brazil and Portugal understand each other. ''
Yes, educated people from both Brazil and Argentina (or Spain) understand each other too. What's your point?
Yes, educated people from both Brazil and Argentina (or Spain) understand each other too. What's your point?
''The only differences between Brazilian and Portuguese are in vocabulary; spelling in words such as "acto/ato",optimo/otimo; the use of vowel accents; minor differences in syntax. ''
this is not true.
you are trying to minimize the differences.
try reading the book called MODERN PORTUGUESE (a Reference Grammar) by Mário Perini, published by Yale University Press. It was rejected by Portuguese grammarians because it describes the Brazilian usage, which is considered ''full of mistakes'' by Portuguese professors. The difference between Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese and Vernacular Continental Portuguese is like the difference between Vernacular Dutch and Afrikaans.
Colloquial Brazilian Portuguese and Colloquial Continental Portuguese are like Colloquial Swiss German and Colloquial Germany's German (Swiss people can understand Colloquial Germany's German but German people cannot understand Colloquial Swiss German; Portuguese people can understand Colloquial Brazilian Portuguese (and find it ''full of mistakes''), but Brazilian people normally cannot understand Spoken Continental Portuguese).
French linguist Galves has proved [by using Chomsky's approach] that Brazilian Portuguese and Continental Portuguese have two different grammars: there are many stuctures that are grammatical in one Portuguese but agrammatical in another Portuguese. It seems that the differences in pronunciation,stress and rhythm (one Portuguese is a stress timed language, another Portuguese language is a syllable timed language) triggered changes in word order, use of prepositions, verb usage...
this is not true.
you are trying to minimize the differences.
try reading the book called MODERN PORTUGUESE (a Reference Grammar) by Mário Perini, published by Yale University Press. It was rejected by Portuguese grammarians because it describes the Brazilian usage, which is considered ''full of mistakes'' by Portuguese professors. The difference between Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese and Vernacular Continental Portuguese is like the difference between Vernacular Dutch and Afrikaans.
Colloquial Brazilian Portuguese and Colloquial Continental Portuguese are like Colloquial Swiss German and Colloquial Germany's German (Swiss people can understand Colloquial Germany's German but German people cannot understand Colloquial Swiss German; Portuguese people can understand Colloquial Brazilian Portuguese (and find it ''full of mistakes''), but Brazilian people normally cannot understand Spoken Continental Portuguese).
French linguist Galves has proved [by using Chomsky's approach] that Brazilian Portuguese and Continental Portuguese have two different grammars: there are many stuctures that are grammatical in one Portuguese but agrammatical in another Portuguese. It seems that the differences in pronunciation,stress and rhythm (one Portuguese is a stress timed language, another Portuguese language is a syllable timed language) triggered changes in word order, use of prepositions, verb usage...
For example
''they saw her''
in Portugal: viram-na
in Brazil: viram-ela
''I arrived home''
in Portugal: cheguei a casa
in Brazil: eu cheguei em casa
''there are many girl on the bus''
in Portugal: há muitas raparigas no autocarro
in Brazil: tem muita(s) garota(s) no ônibus
''I won't tell you''
in Portugal: não vou dizer-te (or: não te vou dizer)
in Brazil: eu não vou te dizer/falar
''I love you''
in Portugal: amo-te
in Brazil: te/lhe amo, or: eu amo você
''if I were you''
in Portugal: se fosse a ti
in Brazil: se eu fosse você
''I would talk to you''
in Portugal: falar-te-ia
in Brazil: eu te falaria
''between you and me''
in Portugal: entre ti e mim
in Brazil: entre você e eu (like in Spanish: entre tu e yo)
''they saw her''
in Portugal: viram-na
in Brazil: viram-ela
''I arrived home''
in Portugal: cheguei a casa
in Brazil: eu cheguei em casa
''there are many girl on the bus''
in Portugal: há muitas raparigas no autocarro
in Brazil: tem muita(s) garota(s) no ônibus
''I won't tell you''
in Portugal: não vou dizer-te (or: não te vou dizer)
in Brazil: eu não vou te dizer/falar
''I love you''
in Portugal: amo-te
in Brazil: te/lhe amo, or: eu amo você
''if I were you''
in Portugal: se fosse a ti
in Brazil: se eu fosse você
''I would talk to you''
in Portugal: falar-te-ia
in Brazil: eu te falaria
''between you and me''
in Portugal: entre ti e mim
in Brazil: entre você e eu (like in Spanish: entre tu e yo)
For example
''they saw her''
in Portugal: viram-na
in Brazil: viram-ela
''I arrived home''
in Portugal: eu cheguei a casa
in Brazil: eu cheguei em casa
''there are many girl on the bus''
in Portugal: há muitas raparigas/miudas/garotas/... no autocarro
in Brazil: tem muita(s) garota(s) no ônibus
''I won't tell you''
in Portugal: não vou dizer-te (or: não te vou dizer) (informal)
in Portugal: eu não vou lhe dizer (formal)
in Brazil: eu não vou te dizer/falar
''I love you''
in Portugal: amo-te (informal)
in Portugal: eu amo você (formal)
in Brazil: te/lhe amo, or: eu amo você
''if I were you''
in Portugal: se fosse a ti (informal)
in Portugal: se eu fosse você (formal)
in Brazil: se eu fosse você
''I would talk to you''
in Portugal: eu te falaria (informal)
in Portugal: eu falaria com você (formal)
in Brazil: eu te falaria
''between you and me''
in Portugal: entre tu e eu (informal)
in Portugal: entre você e eu (formal)
in Brazil: entre você e eu (like in Spanish: entre tu e yo)
''they saw her''
in Portugal: viram-na
in Brazil: viram-ela
''I arrived home''
in Portugal: eu cheguei a casa
in Brazil: eu cheguei em casa
''there are many girl on the bus''
in Portugal: há muitas raparigas/miudas/garotas/... no autocarro
in Brazil: tem muita(s) garota(s) no ônibus
''I won't tell you''
in Portugal: não vou dizer-te (or: não te vou dizer) (informal)
in Portugal: eu não vou lhe dizer (formal)
in Brazil: eu não vou te dizer/falar
''I love you''
in Portugal: amo-te (informal)
in Portugal: eu amo você (formal)
in Brazil: te/lhe amo, or: eu amo você
''if I were you''
in Portugal: se fosse a ti (informal)
in Portugal: se eu fosse você (formal)
in Brazil: se eu fosse você
''I would talk to you''
in Portugal: eu te falaria (informal)
in Portugal: eu falaria com você (formal)
in Brazil: eu te falaria
''between you and me''
in Portugal: entre tu e eu (informal)
in Portugal: entre você e eu (formal)
in Brazil: entre você e eu (like in Spanish: entre tu e yo)
based on your examples, the differences are not so great, and with those one can tell that both can still understand each other.