Spanish language in USA (again)

Please, don´t delete this topic.

Spanish is spoken in USA by a lot of people:

- 44 million of Hispanics (officially, according to US Census Bureau)

- 4 million of people from Puerto Rico (officially)

- 10 million of illegal Hispanics

- 6-8 million of students.


Spanish is first or second language of 42 States and Puerto Rico (it isnot first or second language in only 8 states). So, Spanish is spoken by 20% of people living in USA. It is an important percentage.

Hmm... was this topic deleted as a result of my mentioning German here in Milwaukee as an example of how even a widespread immigrant language in a area can practically go extinct within a limited period of time due to being replaced by a more widespread and longer-established language into whose area said immigrant language was brought... hmm...

Spanish is indeed getting important in not only in the US and Canada too which may threaten the languages in those 2 countries due to massive migrations of latinos from Latin America.

<< Spanish is indeed getting important in not only in the US and Canada too which may threaten the languages in those 2 countries due to massive migrations of latinos from Latin America. >>

No, English is the one that threatens Spanish in Mexico, Central America, and Puerto Rico.

The hispanics that live in the French Canadian community are easily assmilqted into that society than in English speaking environment.

"Hmm... was this topic deleted as a result of my mentioning German here in Milwaukee as an example of how even a widespread immigrant language in a area can practically go extinct within a limited period of time due to being replaced by a more widespread and longer-established language into whose area said immigrant language was brought... hmm..."

Mmmmh... I have a feeling it might be the case.

As a general rule immigrants can bring to their new home various social habits and cooking recipes, but their language NEVER — except in case of a seriously massive overwhelming invasion (Anglo-Saxons in Britain, or Albanians in Kossovo).

In Southern France, along the Mediterranean coast, a majority of people have Italian or Spanish surnames. But only a few grandPa's born in the old country still speak Italian (or Spanish). Their children not only ignore it, they refuse to know anything about it, despite of geographical proximity.

Same situation in Northern France. 100 years ago, due to mass poverty and high demographic growth rates, Flemings emigrated by millions to industrial districts of neighbouring Wallonia and France. Still in the late 20's there were large Dutch speaking communities in those areas. One generation later they all were fanatic francophones. Speaking Flemish was a social stigma everyone wanted to get rid of.

As a result, quite strangely, the massive input of Belgian Flemings in French Flanders (between Dunkirk and Lille) accelerated francization.

Probably the notorious reluctancy of the Americans and the French to learn foreign tongues is related to the fact that those nations are largely made of immigrants.

>>As a general rule immigrants can bring to their new home various social habits and cooking recipes, but their language NEVER — except in case of a seriously massive overwhelming invasion (Anglo-Saxons in Britain, or Albanians in Kossovo).<<

I would say that such applies here, even though German settlement in Wisconsin really did fall into the "seriously massive overwhelming invasion" category at the time when it occurred. At a time in the late nineteenth century, people were seriously thinking that the Upper Midwest would likely be permanently German-speaking...

Of course, though, the widespread suppression of German during US involvement in WW1 definitely had a hand in pushing German here towards extinction, as did the major differences between German dialects (which often resulted in German-speakers speaking with each other in English because they could better understand each other in such than in their native dialects). Even then, German took longer to die here than Polish, which was practically never passed on beyond second generation immigrants (whereas there have been German-speakers born in the US alive until the late 20th century here despite the great bulk of German settlement here occurring prior to WW1).

>>In Southern France, along the Mediterranean coast, a majority of people have Italian or Spanish surnames. But only a few grandPa's born in the old country still speak Italian (or Spanish). Their children not only ignore it, they refuse to know anything about it, despite of geographical proximity.<<

I would say this applies here as well, to an extent. For example, my dad's family tried to make him learn German, which he completely refused to do (including sleeping through German class religiously). Similarly, many people here today are militantly monolingual, and practically insist upon speaking only English.

At the same time, probably more people study German here than in many other parts of the US (of which many do not necessarily even provide German as an option to learn in middle and high school, while it is traditional to offer it here). Likewise, I have known a number of people here who have been really serious about their school German, even after stopping formally learning it. And one way or another, German is still the *traditional* second language here today amongst the European diaspora population here despite the status of Spanish, which is the *practical* second language here today due to immigration from Latin America.

>>Same situation in Northern France. 100 years ago, due to mass poverty and high demographic growth rates, Flemings emigrated by millions to industrial districts of neighbouring Wallonia and France. Still in the late 20's there were large Dutch speaking communities in those areas. One generation later they all were fanatic francophones. Speaking Flemish was a social stigma everyone wanted to get rid of.<<

There really isn't any kind of stigma associated with German here today, aside from the idea held by some (such as my dad) that it is rather anachronistic from the perspective of life here in the Upper Midwest today.

>>Probably the notorious reluctancy of the Americans and the French to learn foreign tongues is related to the fact that those nations are largely made of immigrants.<<

The main thing here is that English is regarded as *the* language of the US today, and all other languages here, aside from Amerindian ones, are foreign interlopers whose speakers should at least speak English to other Americans. Yes, businesses may put up signage and have writing on packaging in other languages (which you do see much more than in the past in the case of Spanish), but there is still definitely the idea that immigrants should learn English, rather than other Americans learning anything but English.

"Probably the notorious reluctancy of the Americans and the French to learn foreign tongues is related to the fact that those nations are largely made of immigrants."

Maybe, maybe not.

I think Americans are practical. We'll learn a foreign language if we need to learn it to communicate or for another reason (work)...

"There really isn't any kind of stigma associated with German here today, aside from the idea held by some (such as my dad) that it is rather anachronistic from the perspective of life here in the Upper Midwest today."

Maybe not in Wisconsin, Travis, but there is still some reluctance related to German other places, I think.

I took out some German materials from the library, and the librarian winced...

Isn't this supposed to be a discussion thread? Then what does "Invitado" want? He simply lists some 'facts', what does (s)he expect?

My question are really two:

These data are true and Spanish is spoken by 20% of p. living in USA (and Puerto Rico) including not only Hispanics?

this percentage is really enough important? or Spanish can desappear in USA in the near future?

>>"There really isn't any kind of stigma associated with German here today, aside from the idea held by some (such as my dad) that it is rather anachronistic from the perspective of life here in the Upper Midwest today."

Maybe not in Wisconsin, Travis, but there is still some reluctance related to German other places, I think.

I took out some German materials from the library, and the librarian winced...<<

I know - I once heard someone here (but who is not originally from Wisconsin, having moved here due to work-related reasons) refer to German as "Nazi".... I honestly wanted to deck him, even though I limited myself to glaring at him...

Sorry for some of you who wish that to happen, but Spanish will not end up like

German in US because:

1. German speakers in US were not backed by a large German speakin country

bordering US.

2. In that time there were not mass media or they were not well developed so

German speakers had less oportunities to practice their language. Now you can find

large corporations such as Univision which broadcast to all US and make Spanish

language
itself a business. They surely will do their best trying to make Spanish a well

established language in US because there are thousands of millions of dollars

involved.

3. I don't see the time when Mexicans stop migrating to US. While there is a huge

economic difference between both countries US will be flooded with millions of

hispanics, so assuming (and it is too much assuming) third generation forgets Spanish,

the number of spanish speakers at least will keep the same.

4.Spanish has always been spoken in US, it is not an allien language like German

but belongs to US cultural roots whether some may accept it or not. Spanish

speaking communities in New Mexico survived for nearly two centuries even when it

got assimilated to US, so why will Spanish dissapear within the next decades if

the perspectives for this language are better than ever? It is highly doubtful.

Spanish language in southern US states will never dissapear, It is such a clear

fact that some people must be blind if they can't see it.

The reason why Spanish survives in the UsS is because even though the 2nd generattion hispanics are monoligual in English, the Spanish speaking population is replenish by a new batch of 1st generation migrants from Latin America and their US born children becomes monolingual in English too.

So, it's a cycle you know.

<<The reason why Spanish survives in the UsS is because even though the 2nd generattion hispanics are monoligual in English, the Spanish speaking population is replenish by a new batch of 1st generation migrants from Latin America and their US born children becomes monolingual in English too.

So, it's a cycle you know. >>


Hey Guest,

Thanks for the reminder!

The thing about such is that while such may allow the long-term survival of Spanish in the US, it would not enable it to supplant English and nor would it even really change the status of Spanish vis-a-vis English in the US. Furthermore, active Spanish-speakers would become a smaller and smaller portion of the Hispanic population in the US due to the children of earlier immigrants from Latin America having primarily switched to speaking English, which would probably put greater pressure on future immigrants from Latin America to learn English.

(And no, I do not *desire* the disappearance of Spanish in the US - rather, I just think that it is inevitable that it will effectively go the way of German or at least be limited to first generation immigrants in the future.)