"deviance" and "deviation"

MollyB   Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:41 pm GMT
Hello all

What's the difference for you between "deviance" and "deviation" in regard to language use in the standard and nonstandard forms of a language?
furrykef   Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 pm GMT
I'm not sure I understand what exactly you're asking. But I'll define what I think is the difference between "deviation" and "deviance" in general.

"Deviation" means an amount -- as in the standard deviation, or it can be used as in "a deviation from the norm". "Deviance" is used to describe a quality: "his deviance is unsettling". I think either "deviation" or "deviance" can be used for discussing the concept in general, though I lean towards "deviance". For instance, if I open a math book, an introduction to the topic might begin with, "Deviance is a statistical measure of blah blah blah... the amount of deviance is called the deviation."

- Kef
Guest   Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:01 pm GMT
kef, knowing the difference between these two words will help me to speak/writer good English. I am curious.....so.
MollyB   Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:40 pm GMT
I was looking at this and wondered if anyone here would agree with it?

"A distinction between deviance and deviation shows that the former reflects the users’ ignorance of the rules of collocation and colligation or failure in the application of the rules while the latter represents features one will legitimately associate with the growth of the English language in new surroundings (Adeniran, 1987)."
furrykef   Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:26 pm GMT
I'm sorry, that sentence is obfuscated enough that I cannot understand it.
K. T.   Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:19 pm GMT
Too funny.
MollyB   Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:57 pm GMT
<I'm sorry, that sentence is obfuscated enough that I cannot understand it. >

And yet I, a NNES, understand it. How odd.

1. deviance reflects the users' ignorance of, or his/her failure to apply, the rules of a language

2. deviation reflects the growth of English in new surroundings
K. T.   Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:23 pm GMT
It really isn't all that odd, MollyB. The quote uses terms that are probably familiar to linguists, but not commonly used by native speakers.
beneficii   Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:35 am GMT
If you wanna talk about mind twisters, check this proposal for the U.K. passports:

'Every citizen of the Union shall, in the territory of a third country in which the members of state of which he is a national is not represented, be entitled to protection by the diplomatic or consular authorities of any member state, on the same conditions as the nationals of that state.'

--quoted in http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=480940&in_page_id=1770

Wow, it took me a few times to read that one and understand it. Just wow.