Open and Closed

Rodrigo   Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:07 am GMT
Why do we say the store is closED but the door is open? Why is open in the present tense? Somebody asked me this question and I knew the store is closed and the door is open is the correct use but I didn't know why. Right now I'm thinking of more examples but I don't understand why we are closED tonight but tomorrow we will be open.
Guest   Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:03 am GMT
In this case, both are adjectives.

There is probably no big reason behind this. But you wouldn't say "the door is close"(for this), would you? Because "close" and "to close" are different things... Perhaps the "..ed" was added to clear confusion...

In the other hand, "Closed" is also the natural condition of the door, isn't it? It shouldn't be left open... Someone should close the door, and that's why it's closed...


Hmm, think I'm not making any sense here, lol.
It's interesting that this distinction happens in other languages as well, not only English.
davidab   Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:15 am GMT
'open' is not in the present tense. Only the first verb of a clause has tense.

'the door is open/closed' requires an adjective not a verb. 'open' can be a verb or an adjective whereas 'close' (=shut) is only a verb. Since past participles can be used as adjectives 'closed' is used as an adjective in this case.

'close' as an adjective means 'near' and is pronounced /kl@Us/ rather than /kl@Uz/
Franco   Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:37 am GMT
So it's wrong to say "the door is opened"?
Milton   Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:12 am GMT
OPENED is a participle
OPEN is an adjective

CLOSED is both participle and adjective


Participles are used in passive voice:
-Every second, one child is born in this country.
-I was born in 1983.

(Born is used as a participle, and not normally as an adjective:
you don't say: when are you born? I am born in 1983.)



Accordingly,

The door has been opened (by someone)...Passive voice, opened = participle
The door is open (now)...Open = adjective


''The door is opened'' Would mean ''Someone opens the door (every day), we open the door (regularly)...''

in German and Portuguese, participle can be distinguished quite easily from the simple adjective, because different verbs are used:

a) in German: if X is used with werden, it's passive voice, X is participle, if X is used with sein, X is simple adjective

b) in Portuguese, if X is used with SER, it's passive voice, X is participle, if X is used with ESTAR, X is simple adjective:

A loja e' fechada. = The store is closed (every day/normally)
fechada is participle, we have passive voice here
closed is participle, passive voice

A loja esta' fechada = The door is closed (now)
fechada is adjective here
closed is adjective here


In English, 99 % of verbs have the same word for adjective and participle, but OPEN/OPENED is one that keeps the distinction.


That is, in English, The houses are sold, can mean


1. The houses are sold (every day, regularly) passive voice...SOLD
functions as a participle
2. The houses have been sold (now, recently)...SOLD functions as a simple adjective.

It's easier in German and Portuguese because these languages use two different words for two types of passive (passive and adjectival construction).
Guest   Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:52 pm GMT
If you only say "the store is closed", it would translate as "a loja está fechada".

As in English, you have to add information to change the meaning. No one says "the store is closed" or "a loja é fechada" meaning that it's usually close everynight.
Guest   Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:44 pm GMT
''If you only say "the store is closed", it would translate as "a loja está fechada".

As in English, you have to add information to change the meaning. No one says "the store is closed" or "a loja é fechada" meaning that it's usually close everynight.''

You missed the point.
Rodrigo   Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:21 am GMT
Thanks for the answers, I've been thinking of other examples and I thought of empty, but I don't know if it relates to this.
Travis   Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:40 am GMT
>>In English, 99 % of verbs have the same word for adjective and participle, but OPEN/OPENED is one that keeps the distinction.<<

In most English dialects, actually, most past participles are adjectives, except for some pairs such as "sunk"/"sunken" where the past participle lacks an "-en" which the associated adjective has (but in many dialects, you can actually use such forms with "-en" as past participles).

One really can use "opened" as an adjective if one wishes. It is just that there is an associated non-participle adjective that is generally used instead in this case.
Guest   Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:39 pm GMT
>>It's easier in German and Portuguese because these languages use two different words for two types of passive (passive and adjectival construction<<

English does soemtimes use the verb 'to get' in passive constructions, which does distinguish it from the adjectival construction.

For example 'He got hurt' as opposed to 'He was hurt'. It doesn't work with all verbs though, you couldn't say 'The door got closed'.

But still, in a way, it is similar to the German construction.
Guest   Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:40 pm GMT
>>It's easier in German and Portuguese because these languages use two different words for two types of passive (passive and adjectival construction<<

English does soemtimes use the verb 'to get' in passive constructions, which does distinguish it from the adjectival construction.

For example 'He got hurt' as opposed to 'He was hurt'. It doesn't work with all verbs though, you couldn't say 'The door got closed'.

But still, in a way, it is similar to the German construction.
guest   Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:10 pm GMT
originally, "open" was a past participle of a strong verb *ūpan [ūp-/aup, up-/-upan-], which meant to 'raise, lift, lift up' and was related to our word "up" (< 'ūp')
So in essence, the past part. 'open' meant 'upped', 'lifted (as a lid)', 'open'.

It entered Old English as an adjective, having lost connection to the obsolete word *ūpan and has served as an adjective ever since. So the door can be "open" - 'not closed'.

"Opened" is the past part of an active verb 'to open' and means 'having been made open' and implies action.

"The door is open" ("the open door") therefore does not = "The door is opened" ("the opened door")--they differ slightly in meaning, though in general meaning they can mean roughly the same.
Guest   Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:38 pm GMT
there are many pairs like this.

adjective vs past participle

open vs opened
welcome vs welcomed