By who? For who?
Hi,
I am not sure what I should say in certain cases, here are some examples:
a) I am going to go to Jamaica.
b) With who? Are you going alone?
a) I just bought a nice gift...
b) For who? Your boyfriend?
a) These sentences would not be considered acceptable.
b) Oh yeah? And by who?
I know the correct forms according to prescriptive grammar should have "whom" (by whom? for whom? with whom?), but I'm more interested in common everyday usage, especially in American English.
Thanks.
Why would you ever use improper grammar on purpose? Do you really think that the layer of Americans who use "who" instead of "whom" will really appreciate your efforts?
Johnny, be a good boy and speak properly.
"Whom" is often heard in these cases. Many people will use "whom" when it is immediately preceded by a preposition, but otherwise, usage of whom is rare except in formal writing. So one might say "You gave it to whom?", but, outside very formal writing, one must say "Who did you give it to?", never "Whom did you give it to?" even though the latter is the "correct" form.
Sometimes "whom" as the object of a verb (instead of a preposition) is acceptable when it immediately follows the verb. For example, "I don't care who hit whom!" I think "who" is more likely to be used here, though.
- Kef
who by, who with and who for
if you don't want to use whom
Thanks.
yes, I know "whom" is too formal for everyday speech, that's why I figured the most common forms must be the ones I gave in my examples above.
<<who by, who with and who for>>
I am asking because I know of those forms too, but I get the impression they are used mainly in the UK, so I was wondering if the most common forms in the US were the ones in my examples.
<<Johnny, be a good boy and speak properly.>>
Well, I hate prescriptive grammar, so I am justing learning the language the way it is. So even though "I ain't got no money" is often labeled as "inappropriate", it probably becomes quite appropriate if you are a black guy among black friends in a black neighborhood, for example.
Sorry for the off topic, but that was just to explain why it seems I don't care about grammar. I care, as long as it's descriptive and not prescriptive.
Anyway, any other comments will be appreciated, thanks.
Also knowing the rules, if I were to say the following in everday speech, this is how I would do it [>letter c]:
a) I am going to go to Jamaica.
b) With who? Are you going alone?
c) With who? Are you going alone? (no change)
a) I just bought a nice gift...
b) For who? Your boyfriend?
c) For who? You boyfriend? (no change)
a) These sentences would not be considered acceptable.
b) Oh yeah? And by who?
c) Oh yeah? And by who? (wow, no change)
Honestly, when I started this, I thought I might have a couple of "whoms" in there, but after really saying aloud, nope...sorry...
Is it correct to say: To whom did you give it?
<<Is it correct to say: To whom did you give it? >>
Yes, definitely. That is the actual, correct way.
It also sounds ridiculous in colloquial speech. Nobody ever says this except in formal writing.
How do you say it in colloquial speech? : To who did you give it? Could you explain me when do you put the preposition at the end?: Who did you give it to?
In colloquial speech I would always put it at the end: "Who did you give it to?"
The correct but seldom heard form is "by whom". "by who" is totally wrong. If you want to avoid "whom", swap the words around and say "who by". I am going to Jamaica? Really? Who with?
There are many people on this forum who are clearly presenting themselves as native speakers, but must be learners.
A "guest" said:
"Also knowing the rules, if I were to say the following in everday speech, this is how I would do it [>letter c]:
a) I am going to go to Jamaica.
b) With who? Are you going alone?
c) With who? Are you going alone? (no change)
a) I just bought a nice gift...
b) For who? Your boyfriend?
c) For who? You boyfriend? (no change)
a) These sentences would not be considered acceptable.
b) Oh yeah? And by who?
c) Oh yeah? And by who? (wow, no change)
Honestly, when I started this, I thought I might have a couple of "whoms" in there, but after really saying aloud, nope...sorry..."
The way he said this makes it sound like he is a native speaker, ie he reads it aloud to check the grammar (as I would do) etc. But this answer is worthless.
These sentences should be "who with?" and "who for? your boyfriend?" and "Oh yeah? Who by?"
Thank you, everyone.
<<The way he said this makes it sound like he is a native speaker, ie he reads it aloud to check the grammar (as I would do) etc. But this answer is worthless.
These sentences should be "who with?" and "who for? your boyfriend?" and "Oh yeah? Who by?">>
Well, if people who give advice here also said which country they're from (Australia, US, UK, etc.), maybe we could notice if there are some differences, sometimes.
For example, I took a look at some blogs on myspace, and I noticed that British people would say "What's this song, and who by?", but Americans would say "...and by who?" - So I think there's probably a difference between British English and American English. Obviously, I'm not sure, and that's why I'm asking.
<<,But this answer is worthless.>>
DJ, the answer is worthless only when you look at it on the surface. There is more to be gleaned from the comment than what is literally there.
The entirety of the post is a picture of how English speakers really deal with this dilema, and that is precisely why I allowed it to be posted. So don't discount things just because you can only see them one way.
btw, I am a native speaker.