English - overly complicated?

Guest   Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:44 pm GMT
It naturally must be ''Would you also adapt easily?''
Guest   Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:49 pm GMT
I can see certain, important changes in our world: less wars than in the past , more multiculturality, less importance of religion in people's lives, new family models, etc.
Guest   Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:54 pm GMT
How can there be more ''multiculturality'' if most of the languages and their related cultures are to die out? Or if everywhere you can get Coca Cola and hamburger? There's still enought conflict in the world and weapons today are more dangerours than in former times. About religion, how can you know? And I really don't know if there are that many family ''models''.
Uriel   Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:38 pm GMT
If you are having trouble with translations, I might ask exactly which books you are reading. "Countenance" IS an old-fashioned word, which you will not see in many modern books, unless they are consciously trying to mimic archaic speech styles, as in, say, fantasy. The modern word is "face" (even shorter than "cara", at one syllable) or "expression" (I believe the Spanish word is quite similar).

The trouble may also lie in how the individual author chooses to put things, not in any inherent aspect of the language itself. As far as Spanish being wholly straightforward at all time goes, I have read that Mexicans often consider the Spanish to be hopelessly long-winded and unable to get straight to the point, even though they are speaking the same language. So every language seems to be able to offer multiple stylistic choices. If you read novels by Dickens or other 19th century authors, you will find that they tended to be very long-winded and convoluted in their sentence structure compared to modern authors, who favor a more direct style, with shorter sentences. Yet it is the same language.
Guest   Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:20 pm GMT
If you mean the "hispanics" in the States, I gotta tell you those ain't real Mexicans, they were born in the States and speak Spanish as their second language, usually with a ghetto accent, REAL Mexicans in Mexico hate that people, they call them Chicanos, which is a despective word, and they usually make fun of how Chicanos speak their "pseudo-Spanish".
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:40 am GMT
<<I thought English was supposed to be the easiest language in the world? I always read this on language forums>>


English is one of the simplest and easiest languages around, even to the point of lacking expressive powers (at least according to some folks around here).

Perhaps, when it comes to translating something into English, that very simplicity hinders the translation of complex ideas that are easy to express in other languages? Maybe translators have to struggle with English to overcome its limited expressiveness?
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:45 am GMT
English is not easier than spanish, and that's a fact, there are plenty of documents out there stating so, I could easily post one, if you want me to, (which I'm pretty sure you will)
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:58 am GMT
<<English is not easier than spanish, ...>>

Let me just say that English was whole heck of a lot easier for me, although admittedly I could be biased. :) Spanish verbs seem to be the biggest problem area (especially the subjunctive), and gramatical gender's no piece of cake. Spanish seems to have a ton of idioms, too.
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:04 am GMT
Let me make it clear as that no one is contesting the grammatical difficulty of either languages, but there are more ways of being difficult than just that. The books I'm referring to, which I find easier to read in Spanish, are complex philosophical works by authors such as Tolstoy, Nietzsche, etc. I often find myself rereading sentences in English whereas in Spanish I understand more rapidly.

<<
English is one of the simplest and easiest languages around, even to the point of lacking expressive powers (at least according to some folks around here).
>>

How good is your English? Have you read, say, Moby Dick? If you have, then I'll accept your statement open-mindedly, if you haven't, then read it and then tell me English lacks expressive power.
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:51 am GMT
<<The books I'm referring to, which I find easier to read in Spanish, are complex philosophical works by authors such as Tolstoy, Nietzsche, etc.>>

There was an old Antimoon thread where someone claimed that the complex ideas of Freud (and presumably Tolstoy, Nietzsche, etc.) are hard to express in English. Perhaps you end up with difficult and hard-to-fathom sentences when you bend English all out of shape trying to make it express complex ideas that English is ill-suited for.


<<How good is your English? Have you read, say, Moby Dick?>>

I'm no English major, but I did read "Moby Dick" way back in high school. I don't remember too much about the plot (something about an albino whale that eventually rammed the whaling ship (ouch!)), but the book did have nice chapters on topics like "Cetology", whaling ship procedures/technique, etc.
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:57 am GMT
Many people believe that German is specially suitable for philosophy compared to other languages and that is the reason why there are many famous German philosophers. Curiously people don't like it when you say that their language lacks expressiveness (how do you say "sombrerucho" in English?), but if you say that German is better than other languages for Philosophy nobody discuss it because it's a positive thing.
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:06 am GMT
There are plenty of things in English not easily expressed in other languages, every language has its own quirks and special phrases.

And maybe the reason German is good for philosophy is because the best philosophers were German, and not the other way around (ie the best philosophers were German because German is good for philosophy).
Travis   Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:08 am GMT
But can you say that English does not have plenty of expressiveness with its use of phrasal verbs and preposition-verb pairs and with its ability to form compounds on the fly? The main problem here is not that one language happens to be more expressive than another, but rather that it is often very hard to transfer ideas or expressions from one language to another, and doing so may require completely mangling how they were expressed originally.
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:27 am GMT
<<There are plenty of things in English not easily expressed in other languages>>

Can someone give an example of an English sentence not easilty translatable into Spanish (for example). It needs to be jargon-free, i.e. not like:

"The caller's regs are now saved in the physical callee's DSA, and in-stack guard pages are used to avoid the overhead of explicit stack overflow checks in function prolog code."
Guest   Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:40 am GMT
Why don't you give an example of Spanish that can't be translated into English first.