This sounds for all the world like a computer synthesized voice. This isn't the only sound file I've listened to that has the distinctive sound of being computer generated. I wonder if people are actually using computer generated voices to "learn" their accents.
My voice sample
I wasn't able to see the file at all. If you were able to see the file was it surrounded by women in various stages of disrobing. I'm not making this up.
<<I wasn't able to see the file at all. If you were able to see the file was it surrounded by women in various stages of disrobing. I'm not making this up.>>
Yeah, there were half-naked women all over the place. At first I wondered if he had given us the link to a porn site. But the file was there for me.
Yeah, there were half-naked women all over the place. At first I wondered if he had given us the link to a porn site. But the file was there for me.
For Jasper,
Thank you for you beautiful postings about shadowing, they are very information-rich.
There once was a website with several articles about this technique. It's since gone offline but I managed to find a copy that's been archived on the Web thanks to the "Internet Archive":
http://web.archive.org/web/20040404144728/http://members.ozemail.com.au/~cdug/homepage/index.html
The editor of that website does not actually use the word shadowing. Mimicking, echoing and Shadow Talking are the terms he offers in describing this intriguing approach to language learning.
By the way, he doesn't mention pronunciation alone as the only feature of spoken language that shadowing can better. According to him, just about everything (confidence, grammar, etc.) can be improved by shadowing.
Happy March,
Achab
Thank you for you beautiful postings about shadowing, they are very information-rich.
There once was a website with several articles about this technique. It's since gone offline but I managed to find a copy that's been archived on the Web thanks to the "Internet Archive":
http://web.archive.org/web/20040404144728/http://members.ozemail.com.au/~cdug/homepage/index.html
The editor of that website does not actually use the word shadowing. Mimicking, echoing and Shadow Talking are the terms he offers in describing this intriguing approach to language learning.
By the way, he doesn't mention pronunciation alone as the only feature of spoken language that shadowing can better. According to him, just about everything (confidence, grammar, etc.) can be improved by shadowing.
Happy March,
Achab
Achab, thank you for both your kind words and your interesting website link; I have bookmarked it for later perusing.
One thing I forgot to mention about shadowing: If you shadow a TRAINED speaker, like I did, you'll notice that even your BREATHING is wrong; my voice was too breathy--the wrong amount of breath was being exhaled with each consonant.
Now, THAT'S something not mentioned on Antimoon's forum very often...
One thing I forgot to mention about shadowing: If you shadow a TRAINED speaker, like I did, you'll notice that even your BREATHING is wrong; my voice was too breathy--the wrong amount of breath was being exhaled with each consonant.
Now, THAT'S something not mentioned on Antimoon's forum very often...
For Jasper,
Peter Graves, the subject you shadowed--is he the Mission: Impossible TV series guy?
I understand that you are a native speaker who tried out shadowing as a means to "tune in" your accent to General American. If so, you shouldn't have had virtually any trouble in understanding what was being said by the subject you were shadowing. As a native speaker, well, you must have had a total or near-total comprehension of the words you were listening to.
What about *non*-native speakers? Should they first make sure to fully grasp which are the words they're going to be exposed to, and only after this go on with the actual shadowing work?
This would sound logical to me, but the website I mentioned seems to suggest you shouldn't even care of understanding the flux of words you're shadowing. Just do it, and your pronunciation will improve, and in the long run, the comprehension of the words you're shadowing will augment as well.
I'm thinking about what the best materials to shadow may be. Audiobooks come to mind immediately...
With happy March wishes,
Achab
Peter Graves, the subject you shadowed--is he the Mission: Impossible TV series guy?
I understand that you are a native speaker who tried out shadowing as a means to "tune in" your accent to General American. If so, you shouldn't have had virtually any trouble in understanding what was being said by the subject you were shadowing. As a native speaker, well, you must have had a total or near-total comprehension of the words you were listening to.
What about *non*-native speakers? Should they first make sure to fully grasp which are the words they're going to be exposed to, and only after this go on with the actual shadowing work?
This would sound logical to me, but the website I mentioned seems to suggest you shouldn't even care of understanding the flux of words you're shadowing. Just do it, and your pronunciation will improve, and in the long run, the comprehension of the words you're shadowing will augment as well.
I'm thinking about what the best materials to shadow may be. Audiobooks come to mind immediately...
With happy March wishes,
Achab
>>>Shadowing was pioneered by Leonard Newmark, a world-renowned neurolinguist at the San Diego University. I believe it to be the most underrated method in existence. [...]<<<
Jasper, I can see your point. But firstly, who is Leonard Newmark? I'd love to see something from him like S.D. Krashen's site (or any books from him?).
If we view a spoken language or, to be more specific, the ability to speak like a voice actor as an art, then it is very clear that a "good" accent, which is up to your own judgment, should be what you are mimicking. If YOU can fake an accent of your favourite voice actor, why not? I can think of those actors who dubbed my favourite anime (namely Doraemon; this is very famous among the Japanese and the Chinese) and who have been show hosts for many years. All of them have a unique "character", and this is the art of voice. I'd say this dramatization of a human voice is very common for singers, soap opera actors, opera singers....and so on.
In my life, I have been unconsciously (but intentionally) mimicking multiple accents of several ordinary people just because I think the ways they speak are "funny". They are all natives (well, they must know fewer languages than I do). I copy their accents, and form a unique one with some features. 1) Male features. Even though Chinese is largely gender-neutral, the feminine language is still rather different from the masculine. 2) Regional accents. I introduce a large of Guangzhou Cantonese and Mandarin words, because I think they are "better" for aesthetic and family reasons. You may well think I'm having an unusual habit, but this sometimes does help me to socialize in some occasions - that is to say, I'm male, but I do GOSSIP. If I can mimic an accent (the voice and even some gestures) of a funny guy I'm talking about with someone, that helps cracking jokes (!).
I still haven't shadowed any language a lot at all, but here's my testimony of faking a native-like accent. GERMAN. I'm still a beginner, but I've got a good accent. I know no phonetics (and lots of words), but I, again, copy heavily from multiple voices of an Assimil course I borrowed. Unfortunately, the actors are unnamed, but I remember what they said almost like quotations from my favourite "funny guys"/actors. German phonemes might not be really THAT straightforward for learners of all linguistic background, but then I can see taking a slight step forward means you are approaching to faking a native accent completely. I actually succeeded in sounding _like_ someone who "has stayed in Germany for some time", something that I never managed to do for English since I never shadowed an English-speaking actor.
Then, I can see the importance of mimicking actors. I think I should be copying accents of multiple actors. If you shadow a Cantonese/Mandarin accent using The Dream of the Red Chamber, you'd sound very weird when you start small talks with natives. I'd suggest learning accents of a lot of them with similar regional accents - so, the standard accent of newsreaders + narrators + show hosts + soap opera actors might be a good start.
Jasper, I can see your point. But firstly, who is Leonard Newmark? I'd love to see something from him like S.D. Krashen's site (or any books from him?).
If we view a spoken language or, to be more specific, the ability to speak like a voice actor as an art, then it is very clear that a "good" accent, which is up to your own judgment, should be what you are mimicking. If YOU can fake an accent of your favourite voice actor, why not? I can think of those actors who dubbed my favourite anime (namely Doraemon; this is very famous among the Japanese and the Chinese) and who have been show hosts for many years. All of them have a unique "character", and this is the art of voice. I'd say this dramatization of a human voice is very common for singers, soap opera actors, opera singers....and so on.
In my life, I have been unconsciously (but intentionally) mimicking multiple accents of several ordinary people just because I think the ways they speak are "funny". They are all natives (well, they must know fewer languages than I do). I copy their accents, and form a unique one with some features. 1) Male features. Even though Chinese is largely gender-neutral, the feminine language is still rather different from the masculine. 2) Regional accents. I introduce a large of Guangzhou Cantonese and Mandarin words, because I think they are "better" for aesthetic and family reasons. You may well think I'm having an unusual habit, but this sometimes does help me to socialize in some occasions - that is to say, I'm male, but I do GOSSIP. If I can mimic an accent (the voice and even some gestures) of a funny guy I'm talking about with someone, that helps cracking jokes (!).
I still haven't shadowed any language a lot at all, but here's my testimony of faking a native-like accent. GERMAN. I'm still a beginner, but I've got a good accent. I know no phonetics (and lots of words), but I, again, copy heavily from multiple voices of an Assimil course I borrowed. Unfortunately, the actors are unnamed, but I remember what they said almost like quotations from my favourite "funny guys"/actors. German phonemes might not be really THAT straightforward for learners of all linguistic background, but then I can see taking a slight step forward means you are approaching to faking a native accent completely. I actually succeeded in sounding _like_ someone who "has stayed in Germany for some time", something that I never managed to do for English since I never shadowed an English-speaking actor.
Then, I can see the importance of mimicking actors. I think I should be copying accents of multiple actors. If you shadow a Cantonese/Mandarin accent using The Dream of the Red Chamber, you'd sound very weird when you start small talks with natives. I'd suggest learning accents of a lot of them with similar regional accents - so, the standard accent of newsreaders + narrators + show hosts + soap opera actors might be a good start.
Supplement:
I also think that mimicking expressions of your friends, for example, might also be an usual phenomenon for socializing purposes - yes, to show to your friends that you agree with their habits, interests, favourite topics, and so on.
How do you choose audiobooks and actors? Like for English, how well do you think people like Frank Muller and Jim Dale narrate? Do we have to pay attention esp. to their regional accents?
I also think that mimicking expressions of your friends, for example, might also be an usual phenomenon for socializing purposes - yes, to show to your friends that you agree with their habits, interests, favourite topics, and so on.
How do you choose audiobooks and actors? Like for English, how well do you think people like Frank Muller and Jim Dale narrate? Do we have to pay attention esp. to their regional accents?
Yeah, how is Frank Muller' voice and accent? Are they General American?
Achab: Peter Graves certainly is the man on Mission: Impossible. :-)
I shadowed him because he has had voice training and he speaks a good version of General American (I have a regional accent).
It's true that I understand every word because I'm a native. As for a non-native?
Achab, I just don't know if it's necessary to understand, before shadowing. I don't have any information. I apologize.
You will notice that there's a slight difference between Leonard Newmark's method, and the website you posted. In Newmark's method, you speak ALONG with the speaker, one sentence at a time; with the other method, you speak a second or two behind the speaker.
All my experience and knowledge concerns Newmark's method.
For those who asked, Leonard Newmark is a renowned neurolinguist who worked out of the San Diego University. I don't know much about him except for his "modeling" (we call it "shadowing", here) method.
I shadowed him because he has had voice training and he speaks a good version of General American (I have a regional accent).
It's true that I understand every word because I'm a native. As for a non-native?
Achab, I just don't know if it's necessary to understand, before shadowing. I don't have any information. I apologize.
You will notice that there's a slight difference between Leonard Newmark's method, and the website you posted. In Newmark's method, you speak ALONG with the speaker, one sentence at a time; with the other method, you speak a second or two behind the speaker.
All my experience and knowledge concerns Newmark's method.
For those who asked, Leonard Newmark is a renowned neurolinguist who worked out of the San Diego University. I don't know much about him except for his "modeling" (we call it "shadowing", here) method.
ACHAB:
By the way, I used an audiobook that used Peter Graves as the narrator.
Audiobooks are the very best source, in my opinion, because you get many hours' worth of the same voice. :-)
By the way, I used an audiobook that used Peter Graves as the narrator.
Audiobooks are the very best source, in my opinion, because you get many hours' worth of the same voice. :-)
Jasper,
You have attracted my attention toward ‘shadowing method’ the existence of which I was not even aware. Since my last posting in this thread I have done some googling to explore the idea. I have come to think that that ‘shadowing work’ may be of use in one’s efforts to master the language. This however, requires a lot of patience and regular work. Needless to say I should do away with some traditional course books to make room for shadowing work. Anyway, I’ll try and go back to you with a new recording or an updated version of this ‘The Mysterious Island’ passage. Again, thanks for your help and useful remarks.
Roger
You have attracted my attention toward ‘shadowing method’ the existence of which I was not even aware. Since my last posting in this thread I have done some googling to explore the idea. I have come to think that that ‘shadowing work’ may be of use in one’s efforts to master the language. This however, requires a lot of patience and regular work. Needless to say I should do away with some traditional course books to make room for shadowing work. Anyway, I’ll try and go back to you with a new recording or an updated version of this ‘The Mysterious Island’ passage. Again, thanks for your help and useful remarks.
Roger
For Jasper,
I'd like to ask you four things. Here they are:
1. What do you mean by "one sentence at the time"?
2. Did you really speak along your subject of choice, Peter Graves, repeating everything he said, without remaining at least a second behind? You did this without knowing in advance what your subject was going to say? Without the transcript of what was being said? Sounds quite a feat...
3. Just out of curiosity, what Peter Graves-narrated book did you use?
4. How did you come to know about Newmark and shadowing?
Thanks,
Achab
I'd like to ask you four things. Here they are:
1. What do you mean by "one sentence at the time"?
2. Did you really speak along your subject of choice, Peter Graves, repeating everything he said, without remaining at least a second behind? You did this without knowing in advance what your subject was going to say? Without the transcript of what was being said? Sounds quite a feat...
3. Just out of curiosity, what Peter Graves-narrated book did you use?
4. How did you come to know about Newmark and shadowing?
Thanks,
Achab