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Are the Chinese languages at all different when written?
There are several Southern Chinese languages - Wu, Yüe, Mini, Hakka, Hsiang, Gan - that differ so much from Mandarin Chinese and each other that speakers of the different languages don´t understand the spoken forms of the other languages, as far as I know. Am I right? Are they intelligible to some extent?
Is there any need of printing books in the different Chinese languages, or are they identical as written (with the Chinese characters)? According to what I know, in Hongkong and on Taiwan they use a more old-fashioned and more complicated system of characters, but is that the only difference?
Cantonese uses some signs unknown to Mandarin, there's even the Wikipedia in it
Somebody (natives) claim that there are different registers of Cantonese. High, used by officials and newsreaders. Low, used in daily situations. High, written in the standard language (Mandarin-based, with some colloquialisms), in the classroom, in books. Low, written in internet forums, elsewhere.
There are certain signs of diglossia in the territory. Any normal person wouldn't read a text in Cantonese "literally" (reading the written language and pronouncing every character exactly), who would normally insert at least a few colloquialisms, like newsreaders, unless s/he is asked to do so, most likely a small school kid. As usual, slang is common, and often you have to learn situations. A university may have different slang from one another, so is in a company.
There must be some such registers even in Beijing-nese, which is supposed to be what Mandarin is based on, because the Chinese have a lot of street talks that aren't written / normally written.
I'd say all such complexities could be comparable to English in England and German in Germany - with all the dialects and something you can't exactly claim as a mere dialect. They are "dialects" just because they aren't national and are regional.
Even the written language, Bai2hua4 wen2, which was introduced in the 1910s, replacing the literary language, has become somewhat different across the borders for historical reasons. Needless to say, how Chinese is written in the then isolated PRC has been different from Hong Kong and Macau and the ROC. That's just like German in at least 3 different countries but they all can write the same language properly and communicate perfectly just through writing.
All Chinese books are written either in Simplfied Chinese or in Traditinal Chinese.
No book is written in Chinese dialects.
Many books are written in Cantonese.
Even camera manuals are different: one for HongKong/Macau, in Cantonese, another one for Mandarin. Mandarin speakers familiar only with Simplified Chinese have troubles with Cantonese, which uses many complex and sometimes archaic symbols (plus original / new Cantonese symbols)
Milton,
You can access the official website of Hong Kong SAR goverment.
The content on that website is written and orgnized just in Traditional Mandarin.
Maybe a little history on China will help explain why Mandarin is the only official written Chinese in China (mainland), Hongkong, Taiwan, and Singapore.
From 12th to 19th, China has three dynasties: Yuan, Ming, and Qing. The capital of all these three dynasty is Beijing. That is why the dialect of North China is recognized as the de facto offical language of China in past 600 - 700 years.
As you metioned, perhaps some pamlets may be written in Contonese, but that would change sooner or later, because both Taiwan and China (Mainland) use Mandarin as their official langauge.
You must be kidding to say Cantonese is _written_ on manuals. Impossible. You can speak Cantonese to the camera salesman to get him explain how to use a camera, but the main differences actually lie in how different Chinese interpret the same technical terms.
We have namely 3 kinds of technical vocabulary, with the Hong Kong's being rather similar to the Taiwan's (with the same characters). But of course we have some other different colloquial terms for a few technical things, like a loanword for "spare tire" (hm, I don't think the Taiwan or mainland people have an English word for this).
Politically, I sort of speculate that the Hong Kong vocabulary won't disappear for political but, rather, cultural reasons. I don't know. Does the PRC government want to sound democratic and supportive of its diverse cultures? And diverse characters? Economically, actually, it'd be rather costly to do away with traditional characters and Taiwan and Hong Kong vocabulary and so on.
Think about this. PRC (and ROC) and Germany have a standard language known as Standard Mandarin and Hochdeutsch. Germany certainly doesn't have the authority to teach the Austrians and the Swiss German speakers, but there's no problem of understanding because everyone can at least understand some Hochdeutsch. Both PRC and ROC regulate Mandarin (but not others, but they don't actively try to TEACH natives and non-natives how to use the language. Unlike how you might be speculating, we are still coming up with loads of new (funny) terms every year and our governments aren't going to stop that. People and the media can virtually talk about anything except politics.
sino, All Chinese books are written either in Simplfied Chinese or in Traditinal Chinese.
No book is written in Chinese dialects.
From 12th to 19th, China has three dynasties: Yuan, Ming, and Qing. The capital of all these three dynasty is Beijing. That is why the dialect of North China is recognized as the de facto offical language of China in past 600 - 700 years.
There are some kinds of books written in Simplified Character or in Traditinal Character.
The Classical Chinese (GuWen)
The Literary Chinese (WenYanWen)
The Mandarin Colloquial Writing (KuanHua BaiHuaWen)
The books are written in Mandarin Colloquial Writing in the script of Simplified Character that are published in China, Singapore and Malaysia. The books of Mandarin Colloquial Writing in the script of Traditional Character are published in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau.
Other Sinitic Colloquial Writings
The Southern Sinitic languages – the ethnicities of Wu, Yüe, Min, Hakka, Hsiang, Gan also have their books in the scripts of Sinitic character or Latin alphabet. After 1950s, the Mandarinization Policy was only allow the books be printed in Mandarin Colloquial Writing. Those books of Wu, Yüe, Min, Hakka, Hsiang, Gan were prohibited to publish. The ethnic languages and writings of Wu, Yüe, Min, Hakka, Hsiang, Gan were banned to teach in the schools.
In the history of Mandarin language we can see that its name was always changed time by time.
Before 1910s, Kuan Hua; means the Empire mandarin’s language.
After 1910s, Guo Yu; means the language of State.
After 1950s, Pu Tong Hua; means the lingua franca.
After 1980s, Han Yu; means the language of Han Nationality.
<< I'd say all such complexities could be comparable to English in England and German in Germany - with all the dialects and something you can't exactly claim as a mere dialect. They are "dialects" just because they aren't national and are regional.
The England, Germany, Danmark and other Germanics are the states with single nationality. But the China, Taiwan, Singapore are the societies with plural nationalities and plural ethnicities. The Mandarin, Wu, Yüe, Min, Hakka, Hsiang and Gan all are the languages of Sinitic Group. These so called dialects of Wu, Yüe, Min, Hakka, Hsiang and Gan just because they borrowed the Literary Chinese and Written Mandarin as their Written Language.
Germanic Group:
English
German
Danish
Frisian
Dutch
Gotish
Afrikaans
Sinitic Group:
Mandarin
Wu,
Yüe,
Min,
Hakka,
Hsiang,
Gan
Your "Germanic Group" is only the Western Teutonic. You've omitted the northern, Scandinavian, Germanic languages...
Suomalainen, “Is there any need of printing books in the different Chinese languages, or are they identical as written (with the Chinese characters)?”
<The Memoirs of Shanghainese Flowers> (printed in 1894) is a very famous novel of the Wu Language written in a mixture writing systems with the script of Sinitic character. The dialogues of this novel were written in Soochow Dialect (a dialect of the Wu Language) and the story was written in Literary Chinese (Wen Yan Wen). The native Mandarin speakers and other Sinitic speakers don´t understand the dialogues of this novel (Soochow Dialect) but can know the sketch of this story (Literary Chinese).
http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%B5%B7%E4%B8%8A%E8%8A%B1%E5%88%97%E4%BC%A0&variant=zh-sg
《海上花列传》(1894) 是最著名的 吴语小说，作者江苏松江府（今属上海市）人韩邦庆。全书由 文言文 和 苏州白话文 夹杂写成，对话皆用 苏州话 是该书的鲜明特点，使用 苏州白话文 也是19世纪兴起的 吴语小说 的共同特点。用 吴语对话 夹杂 文言叙述 写就的小说《海上花列传》非 吴语人士 无法深入理解其内涵。
<A Record about Cultural Heretage in the Metropolis of Min> (閩都別記)
This is an important book of Foochow Language that was written in a mixture writing systems with the script of Sinitic character. Which was mixed with the written Foochow and Literary Chinese. This book contains three volumes and 1.2 million Sinitic characters that printed in 1736 – 1820.
This book is a record about cultural heretage of the Foochow speaking people including the legendaries, mysteries, the beliefs and practices of Min Shamanism, history, ethnic stories, traditions and customs, local style architectures, Foochow language and etc.
http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E9%96%A9%E9%83%BD%E5%88%A5%E8%A8%98&variant=zh-sg
《闽都别记》是清朝 乾嘉时期 (1736 - 1820) 问世的 福州话小说。全书分为上、中、下三册，凡401回，120万字，是 福州籍文人 根据当地民间传说参照历史故事拼凑而成的话本。其内容主要描写了 福州地区 的社会生活，记录了大量的民间传说、历史故事、地方掌故、风俗习惯、名胜古迹、俚谣俗谚、以及 福州俗语 等等。它保存了大量的历史资料，可补正正史、方志的不足，是研究 福州地方史 和社会学、民俗学及语言学的重要参考材料。该书作者署名“里人 何求”，当为 福州人士 无疑。至于“何求”究竟是真实姓名抑或伪托，尚无定论。
That's pretty interesting stuff.
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