Portugal is an insignificant country. Who cares if they like Spain or not.
Italian & Portugese Lexical Similarities
But that is not true. A lot of them like ,even to fusion both countries. More than 33% of Portuguese people want to be part of Iberia, a fusion of Portugal and Spain, according to several surveys.
Saramago, the famous writer, and a lot of other people, would like this fusion. Iberia would be an important country.
Saramago, the famous writer, and a lot of other people, would like this fusion. Iberia would be an important country.
Portugal is poorer than Spain, I doubt that the Spanish would like to share their economic success with their poor neighbors that only want to join Spain because their economy can't grow at fast pace like the Spanish one. Sarmago is a charlatan and should go back to Portugal.
Quoting Guest13 : «But that is not true. A lot of them like, even to fusion both countries. More than 33% of Portuguese people want to be part of Iberia, a fusion of Portugal and Spain, according to several surveys.»
I agree partly. It's true only a minority of portuguese people does dislike Spain and Spaniards; the majority range from benevolent indiference to a certain degree of admiration and positive feelings; again, only a tiny minority does true-heartly desire an iberian union. Inside this minority, I feel only an even tinyer part does realise what this "union" would be : Portugal becoming another member inside the already multi-national state of Spain, alongside Galicia, Catalunya and all the gang.
I agree partly. It's true only a minority of portuguese people does dislike Spain and Spaniards; the majority range from benevolent indiference to a certain degree of admiration and positive feelings; again, only a tiny minority does true-heartly desire an iberian union. Inside this minority, I feel only an even tinyer part does realise what this "union" would be : Portugal becoming another member inside the already multi-national state of Spain, alongside Galicia, Catalunya and all the gang.
Saramago is not a charlatan, he just sometimes feels the urge to make some provocative statement, in order to create some fuss and draw attention. He is a bitter, conflictive person, and tends to vitimization (in that we see how portuguese he is).
Besides, in that interview he didn't say he wants an iberian union, he said we were doomed to have it, so we'd better start getting ready to face it with a sad but smiling face. At least that's how I read it.
Besides, in that interview he didn't say he wants an iberian union, he said we were doomed to have it, so we'd better start getting ready to face it with a sad but smiling face. At least that's how I read it.
Inside this minority, I feel only an even tinyer part does realise what this "union" would be : Portugal becoming another member inside the already multi-national state of Spain, alongside Galicia, Catalunya and all the gang.
What did they expect if not? Spanish autonomous regions are similar to states in US if not more independent. Spain would be too generous if they gave such advantages to Portugal in exchange of almost nothing since Portugal would not lose too much sovereignty if became a Spanish autonomous region .On the other hand they would benefit of belonging to a richer country . The problem is that Portugal is even poorer than Andalucia and it has 11 millions of inhabitants. The absortion of Portugal would unstabilize the Spanish economy and the richest regions like Catalonia would protest. Thay is the reason why the union is unfeasible .
What did they expect if not? Spanish autonomous regions are similar to states in US if not more independent. Spain would be too generous if they gave such advantages to Portugal in exchange of almost nothing since Portugal would not lose too much sovereignty if became a Spanish autonomous region .On the other hand they would benefit of belonging to a richer country . The problem is that Portugal is even poorer than Andalucia and it has 11 millions of inhabitants. The absortion of Portugal would unstabilize the Spanish economy and the richest regions like Catalonia would protest. Thay is the reason why the union is unfeasible .
I was born in Portugal but left in my twenties. I still go there every year for 5 weeks. Guest you are very wrong. I am here to tell you that the Portuguese people today get along with our Spanish neighbours like brothers. There are so many Spanish businesses in Portugal, and so many Portuguese bsuinesses in Spain. They cross each others borders every day like they are going into their own backyard. The upsets of the past are in the past. There are thousands of Spaniards living in Portugal and they are treated like brothers. There are thousands of Portuguese living in Spain and are treated like brothers. In Spain I used to often hear the Spaniards in conversation saying "de todas las gentes de los paises latinos en la Europa, nuestros hermanos Portugueses son mucho mas tipo nosotros en todo." Translation: "of all the latin peoples in Europe, our Portuguese brothers are the most like us in everything." In Portugal you often hear Portuguese people saying the same thing about the Spaniards. No guest, you are misinformed somehow. True, the Brazilians like the Spaniards. But today the Portuguese and Spanish people are the best of friends. Go there and see for yourself.
In any case, the discussion was not about liking or disliking...it is about the similarities between romance languages. And I agree completely with 'romancelanguagelover' - "Spanish and Portuguese still have the closest affinity to one another."
And as a Portuguese, if I was lost at sea, I would feel more comfortable with a Spanish speaker, than with an Italian speaker. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking; I really like Italians...well most :-) It has to do with my level of comfort with a person who is from the closest culture and language from the romance language family. It's as simple as that.
In any case, the discussion was not about liking or disliking...it is about the similarities between romance languages. And I agree completely with 'romancelanguagelover' - "Spanish and Portuguese still have the closest affinity to one another."
And as a Portuguese, if I was lost at sea, I would feel more comfortable with a Spanish speaker, than with an Italian speaker. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking; I really like Italians...well most :-) It has to do with my level of comfort with a person who is from the closest culture and language from the romance language family. It's as simple as that.
Spain would have lots to gain from a union with Portugal. Just imagine all of the Portuguese speaking world united with all of the Spanish speaking world...what a force to be reckoned Iberia would be! Portuguese and Spanish speakers together in the world account for over 600 million!!! Can't you see what an economic and political advantage that would be for both? Brazil and Spanish America are already closely connected by the Mercosur/sul agreement. The Spanish speaking countries are teaching Portuguese as a second language in their schools, and Spanish is being taught in Brazilian schools as a second language. Wake up naysayers, the lusofone and hispanic world is destined to remain joined at the hip.
Spain would have lots to gain from a union with Portugal.
Just tell me one of them.
Just tell me one of them.
Some facts in case you didn't know:
1. Portuguese is a major world language (5th) most spoken by more than 220 million people in Europe, Africa, Asia, and South America.
2. Portuguese is the 5th language of the world; the 2nd most spoken Romance language after Spanish; one of the official languages of the EU; and the 2nd most spoken language by just over half the population of South America.
3. Portuguese is the 2nd most geographically far-flung European language after English. More people speak Portuguese worldwide than French, German, Italian, Japanese, Russian, and Korean.
4. Portuguese is the working language for the following international organizations:
Community of Portuguese Language Countries (or) Comunidade dos Países de Língua Portuguesa
CPLP was formed in 1996 with seven countries: Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, Portugal and São Tomé and Príncipe. East-Timor joined the community in 2002 as the 8th member after regaining independence from Indonesia.
• ACP – Países Africanos, Caraíbas e Pacífico
• Mercosul – Mercado Comum do Sul
• OEI – Organização dos Estados Ibero-Americanos
• OUA – Organização de Unidade Africana
• SADC – Comunidade para o Desenvolvimento da África Austral
• UE–União Europeia -one of the official languages of the European Union.
• UL – União Latina
• UEMOA – União Económica e Monetária da África Ocidental
5. Portuguese is the language of Brazil (180 million population), a country occupying half of the South American territory where Portuguese is spoken by 51%. Brazil, the 8th world economy, is a leading Mercosul member and the 2nd industrial power of the Americas.
6. Portuguese is the official language of Brazil, the African republics of Angola, Cape Verde, Mozambique, Guinea-Bissau, and St. Tome and Principe. These Portuguese-speaking countries are an increasing force in the global economy (i.e., trade between China and Angola, and strong trade ties between Brazil and the United States, Latin America, and other economic powers in the world). In Asia, Portuguese is spoken in East Timor, Macau, and Goa. Portuguese is a growing language in the world, and increasingly being learned as a second language everywhere.
7. For those who don't think Portuguese matters in the USA, Portuguese is widely spoken in the USA, where over 1.3 million people are of Portuguese heritage, perhaps more. In Massachusetts, Portuguese is the third most spoken language after English and Spanish. In Rhode Island, Portuguese is the 2nd most spoken language after English. Portuguese is also widely spoken in California, Connecticut, Hawaii, New York City, Florida, and New Jersey.
8. Portuguese is widely spoken in many vibrant Portuguese-speaking communities around the world in the countries including, Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bermuda, Canada, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Namibia, Paraguay, Rhodesia, South Africa, Sweden, United Kingdom, and Venezuela.
9. The Portuguese language is the language of many cultures, each one with its unique History, Literature, Arts and Traditions.
10. Portuguese is very close to Spanish, and has some similarities to French and Italian. Speakers of Spanish can learn Portuguese very easy and quickly. Speakers of other Romance languages can learn it too. The high intelligibilty between Portuguese and Spanish is a real assest for speakers of these two languages. This means that combined, they can communicate with approx. 600 million people around the world.
11.There are many more reasons for learning Portuguese. The most obvious reason is that knowing a new language can open up job opportunities. Knowing Portuguese also means that one can understand, and be understood in all of the Portuguese speaking countries. If you don't speak Spanish, you can still get around fairly easily if you speak Portuguese in the Spanish speaking countries and vice-versa.
12. Portuguese speakers can find a variety of career options in education, diplomacy, national security, military, international relations, media, finance, trade, business, tourism, social work, sales, and services.
Does anyone still think the Portuguese language and culture insignificant??
1. Portuguese is a major world language (5th) most spoken by more than 220 million people in Europe, Africa, Asia, and South America.
2. Portuguese is the 5th language of the world; the 2nd most spoken Romance language after Spanish; one of the official languages of the EU; and the 2nd most spoken language by just over half the population of South America.
3. Portuguese is the 2nd most geographically far-flung European language after English. More people speak Portuguese worldwide than French, German, Italian, Japanese, Russian, and Korean.
4. Portuguese is the working language for the following international organizations:
Community of Portuguese Language Countries (or) Comunidade dos Países de Língua Portuguesa
CPLP was formed in 1996 with seven countries: Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, Portugal and São Tomé and Príncipe. East-Timor joined the community in 2002 as the 8th member after regaining independence from Indonesia.
• ACP – Países Africanos, Caraíbas e Pacífico
• Mercosul – Mercado Comum do Sul
• OEI – Organização dos Estados Ibero-Americanos
• OUA – Organização de Unidade Africana
• SADC – Comunidade para o Desenvolvimento da África Austral
• UE–União Europeia -one of the official languages of the European Union.
• UL – União Latina
• UEMOA – União Económica e Monetária da África Ocidental
5. Portuguese is the language of Brazil (180 million population), a country occupying half of the South American territory where Portuguese is spoken by 51%. Brazil, the 8th world economy, is a leading Mercosul member and the 2nd industrial power of the Americas.
6. Portuguese is the official language of Brazil, the African republics of Angola, Cape Verde, Mozambique, Guinea-Bissau, and St. Tome and Principe. These Portuguese-speaking countries are an increasing force in the global economy (i.e., trade between China and Angola, and strong trade ties between Brazil and the United States, Latin America, and other economic powers in the world). In Asia, Portuguese is spoken in East Timor, Macau, and Goa. Portuguese is a growing language in the world, and increasingly being learned as a second language everywhere.
7. For those who don't think Portuguese matters in the USA, Portuguese is widely spoken in the USA, where over 1.3 million people are of Portuguese heritage, perhaps more. In Massachusetts, Portuguese is the third most spoken language after English and Spanish. In Rhode Island, Portuguese is the 2nd most spoken language after English. Portuguese is also widely spoken in California, Connecticut, Hawaii, New York City, Florida, and New Jersey.
8. Portuguese is widely spoken in many vibrant Portuguese-speaking communities around the world in the countries including, Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bermuda, Canada, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Namibia, Paraguay, Rhodesia, South Africa, Sweden, United Kingdom, and Venezuela.
9. The Portuguese language is the language of many cultures, each one with its unique History, Literature, Arts and Traditions.
10. Portuguese is very close to Spanish, and has some similarities to French and Italian. Speakers of Spanish can learn Portuguese very easy and quickly. Speakers of other Romance languages can learn it too. The high intelligibilty between Portuguese and Spanish is a real assest for speakers of these two languages. This means that combined, they can communicate with approx. 600 million people around the world.
11.There are many more reasons for learning Portuguese. The most obvious reason is that knowing a new language can open up job opportunities. Knowing Portuguese also means that one can understand, and be understood in all of the Portuguese speaking countries. If you don't speak Spanish, you can still get around fairly easily if you speak Portuguese in the Spanish speaking countries and vice-versa.
12. Portuguese speakers can find a variety of career options in education, diplomacy, national security, military, international relations, media, finance, trade, business, tourism, social work, sales, and services.
Does anyone still think the Portuguese language and culture insignificant??
The Portuguese language is important because of Brazil , but Portugal alone is a tiny and unimportant country in the far west of Europe. What benefits would Spain get if Portugal became part of this country? Spain is already the second biggest foreign investor in Brazil, they don't even need Portugal to maintain close ties with Brazil so I don't find any significant advantages in Portugal being part of Spain.
''The Portuguese language is important because of Brazil ''
I agree, and Brazilian Portuguese and Continental Portuguese are becoming two separate languages, at a pace, but Continental Portuguese has no impact on Brazil to the point an average Brazilian cannot even understand it (Portuguese movies are dubbed, books translated into the Brazilian norm)
I agree, and Brazilian Portuguese and Continental Portuguese are becoming two separate languages, at a pace, but Continental Portuguese has no impact on Brazil to the point an average Brazilian cannot even understand it (Portuguese movies are dubbed, books translated into the Brazilian norm)
You sound ignorant guest. You need to research some more. You forget that it is China who is a major foreign investor not only in Brazil, BUT ALSO in Portugal's former African colonies, particularly Angola. Indeed, this Chinese-Portuguese connection makes Portugal very important on the global stage, contrary to what some who don't know any better think. What would Spain have to gain from a union with Portugal? Read on for the answer.
Here are some quotes from the article:
"China's Portuguese Connection" China grooms a strategic relationship with the Community of Portuguese Language Countries (Yale Global Online, © 2006 Yale Center for the Study of Globalization)
Patience is power, suggests a Chinese proverb, and that describes how China pursues diplomacy. The Community of Portuguese Language Countries (CPLP) consists of eight states around the world, encompassing 230 million people – but is rarely regarded as a priority in global politics. Bucking conventional thinking, China diligently pursues diplomacy with the CPLP, foreseeing benefits such as new energy supplies and markets for Chinese goods. Indeed, Brazil – rich in resources and ranking fifth in the world for population – is a major trading partner for China. China has increased direct investment and trade with most CPLP states, offering aid packages and sending impressive numbers of Portuguese-speaking diplomats to the capitals. China’s reaching out to the Portuguese-speaking community as a whole strengthens ties among members as well as separate ties with China. The Chinese government has strategically built an alliance that could offer immense value in the years to come. – YaleGlobal
"Without question, Angola [former Portuguese colony - Portuguese official language] is China’s most important partner on the African continent. The country is the second largest oil producer in Africa and possesses one of the world’s largest diamonds fields. In February 2006 Angola became the largest supplier of crude oil to China, beating Saudi Arabia and Iran into second and third place. Recognizing how Angolan oil can contribute to its continuing growth, China has embarked on a massive offensive to secure its vital position in the country. During Vice Premier Zeng Peiyang’s visit in 2005, China granted the Angolan government a $6.3 million interest-free loan and additional $2.2 billion in soft loans in early 2006. Agreements have also been signed in the telecommunications sector, with China pledging to invest $400 million in Angola’s Telecom and a further $100 million to upgrade Angola’s military communications. Chinese companies have also participated in the construction of railroads, shopping centers and housing projects, and construction of a major oil refinery is planned. In 2005 Angola was China’s second largest trading partner in Africa, with a trade volume of $5 billion."
"China is also increasing activity in Mozambique [former Portuguese colony - Portuguese official language]. While Chinese foreign direct investment in Mozambique remains small at $9 million in 2005, one should take into account that it has grown from a mere $436,000 in 2004. Trade between the two nations totaled $160 million in 2005. The small amounts belie the importance of Mozambique to China, as the country is believed to have large reserves of untapped natural gas and oil. China is also becoming a major source of credit with a $2.3 billion soft loan granted this year for the construction of a major dam on the Zambezi River."
"In December 2005 China and Portugal established a strategic partnership. While a small power, Portugal has been a useful friend, with Lisbon well disposed toward ending the EU arms embargo on China. Portugal’s 500-year-old relationship with Africa and its strong presence on the continent that goes beyond its former colonies are valuable assets for China. Beijing values its ties with Lisbon – enough to deem the country as one of five in Europe awarded status of strategic partner."
Before anyone else in this forum tries to put Portugal down, let them first know the facts.
Here are some quotes from the article:
"China's Portuguese Connection" China grooms a strategic relationship with the Community of Portuguese Language Countries (Yale Global Online, © 2006 Yale Center for the Study of Globalization)
Patience is power, suggests a Chinese proverb, and that describes how China pursues diplomacy. The Community of Portuguese Language Countries (CPLP) consists of eight states around the world, encompassing 230 million people – but is rarely regarded as a priority in global politics. Bucking conventional thinking, China diligently pursues diplomacy with the CPLP, foreseeing benefits such as new energy supplies and markets for Chinese goods. Indeed, Brazil – rich in resources and ranking fifth in the world for population – is a major trading partner for China. China has increased direct investment and trade with most CPLP states, offering aid packages and sending impressive numbers of Portuguese-speaking diplomats to the capitals. China’s reaching out to the Portuguese-speaking community as a whole strengthens ties among members as well as separate ties with China. The Chinese government has strategically built an alliance that could offer immense value in the years to come. – YaleGlobal
"Without question, Angola [former Portuguese colony - Portuguese official language] is China’s most important partner on the African continent. The country is the second largest oil producer in Africa and possesses one of the world’s largest diamonds fields. In February 2006 Angola became the largest supplier of crude oil to China, beating Saudi Arabia and Iran into second and third place. Recognizing how Angolan oil can contribute to its continuing growth, China has embarked on a massive offensive to secure its vital position in the country. During Vice Premier Zeng Peiyang’s visit in 2005, China granted the Angolan government a $6.3 million interest-free loan and additional $2.2 billion in soft loans in early 2006. Agreements have also been signed in the telecommunications sector, with China pledging to invest $400 million in Angola’s Telecom and a further $100 million to upgrade Angola’s military communications. Chinese companies have also participated in the construction of railroads, shopping centers and housing projects, and construction of a major oil refinery is planned. In 2005 Angola was China’s second largest trading partner in Africa, with a trade volume of $5 billion."
"China is also increasing activity in Mozambique [former Portuguese colony - Portuguese official language]. While Chinese foreign direct investment in Mozambique remains small at $9 million in 2005, one should take into account that it has grown from a mere $436,000 in 2004. Trade between the two nations totaled $160 million in 2005. The small amounts belie the importance of Mozambique to China, as the country is believed to have large reserves of untapped natural gas and oil. China is also becoming a major source of credit with a $2.3 billion soft loan granted this year for the construction of a major dam on the Zambezi River."
"In December 2005 China and Portugal established a strategic partnership. While a small power, Portugal has been a useful friend, with Lisbon well disposed toward ending the EU arms embargo on China. Portugal’s 500-year-old relationship with Africa and its strong presence on the continent that goes beyond its former colonies are valuable assets for China. Beijing values its ties with Lisbon – enough to deem the country as one of five in Europe awarded status of strategic partner."
Before anyone else in this forum tries to put Portugal down, let them first know the facts.
Oh poor Cipo...I feel sorry for you. My own father who is Azorean has long, educated and stimulating conversations with many online friends from all over Brazil. And guess what, they understand each other perfectly. Hold on, I know what you're thinking: written Portuguese over the internet chat makes communication easy. True, but here is the kicker: my father actually has telephone conversations with these friends as well. Same result...they understand one another perfectly...and my father is Azorean Portuguese!! Nice try ;-)