spanish and italian

Ed   Monday, January 24, 2005, 21:00 GMT
Thank you, Garota de Ipanema! I like Brazilian Portuguese a lot!
Tiffany   Monday, January 24, 2005, 21:01 GMT
Vivo negli Stati Uniti. Sono nata a Miami, FL. Ci sono molti cubani lì, quindi ho studiato spagnolo per dieci anni. Avevo sei anni quando ho cominciato studiare. Studio italiano da due anni. Il mio marito é italiano e ho voluto imparare italiano perché io abbia potuto parlare con i miei suoceri.

Adesso vivo in California. Abbiamo 12°C qui. È più caldo ma solo un po'. Ti dico in inglese "Cover up! It's cold outside!" Non so la traduzione precisa in italiano. Forse "Porta una coperta! Fa freddo fuori!"
Jordi   Monday, January 24, 2005, 21:02 GMT
Muy Sr. mío:
El caso es que el Reino de Aragón estaba en manos de la Casa de Barcelona, como sabe cualquier especialista en dinastías europeas y que la lengua oficial del reino era el catalán. Llámale como quieras pero la cosa estaba dominada por los catalanotes (catalanes,valencianos y baleares) y la lengua de la cancellería nunca se llamó aragonés. Y lo que se encuentra en los dialectos itálicos son catalanismos y no castellanismos. Eso lo sabe cualquier lingüista español.
Ahora, a los españolistas/castellanistas os encanta negar la hegemonía del elemento catalán dentro de la Corona de Aragón. Eso hace reír a cualquier universitario especialista en la materia.
En lo que se refiere a tu idea de España estoy convencido que muchos en Cataluña y Euskadi estarán de acuerdo contigo. Lo único que tienes que hacer es votar con los independentistas y así les ayudas a conseguir sus fines. Ya sabes que toda piedra hace pared.
Por mi, se acabó porqué se te ve la ideología retro por el forro. Te deseo una España que sea una, grande y libre (y algo más cutre, pobre y autoritaria, en todos los sentidos, por qué no?). La verdad es que los únicos separatistas sóis vosotros y se comprende que tantos catalanes y vascos quieran perderos de vista.
Adiós y hasta nunca.
Se despide de V. su humilde servidor que se alegra de no conocerle personalmente,
Llorenç   Monday, January 24, 2005, 22:39 GMT
From 1035 until 1479 Aragon was the name of an independent kingdom ruling not only the present administrative region called Aragon, but, from 1137, was also the name of a Crown spanning the Kingdom of Aragon and Catalonia, and later the Balearic Islands, the Valencia, Sicily, Naples and Sardinia.

The real centre of this kingdom was Barcelona, since it was a seaport located near the geographical center of the Crown, and also one of the political centers of the Crown, with its Consell de Cent ruling the laws of Catalonia. Other important seaports were Valencia and Mallorca. Both Zaragoza and Valencia had more population than Barcelona until the 18th century (long after the Aragonese Empire had been absorbed into Spain), when the walls of Barcelona were taken down and the city outgrew all others in the territories of the former Crown.

Some present-day historians may call the Crown the "Catalan-Aragonese Confederation", since this reflects the composition of the state, but its most usual name was "Crown of Aragon". Barcelona was the center of what was in many ways a Mediterranean Empire, ruling the Mediterranean Sea and setting rules for the entire sea (for instance, in the Llibre del Consolat del Mar, a compilation of maritime law in Catalan).

History
The union of the two territories of Catalonia and Aragon was caused by the marriage of Ramon Berenguer IV, Count of Barcelona and Petronila of Aragon, later Queen of Aragon. This merged the County of Barcelona with the Kingdom of Aragon under the name of "Crown of Aragon". Their son, Alfonso II, inherited both titles. This union was made while respecting the existing institutions of both places. This situation was maintained until the abolition of the state, beginning 18th century.

The king, James I (13th century), conquered new territories and incorporated Majorca and the region of Valencia to the state. Valencia was made a new kingdom with its own institutions, and so the third member of the confederation. Majorca, together with the counties of Cerdanya and Roussillon and the city of Montpellier, were given to his son James and were named Kingdom of Majorca, but these territories were reincorporated in year 1349.

The expansion through Mediterranean sea continued (Sicily, Minorca, Sardinia). In 1410 king Martin I dies without descendants. This caused Ferdinand of Antequera, from the Castilian dynasty of Trastamara, to be made king of the Crown of Aragon.

In year 1443, Naples was conquered. Later Ferdinand II of Aragon recovered the northern catalan counties and married queen Isabella I of Castile in 1479. However, Castile and the Crown of Aragon remained as different states keeping their own institutions and laws.

The Crown of Aragon was abolished after the War of the Spanish Succession (1702–1713).
lamer   Tuesday, January 25, 2005, 01:15 GMT
lamer significa to lick... supongo que soy un lamedor porque me gusta mucho lamer cosas ciertas.

Catalonia debe ser un lugar donde se puede ir para cagar.
lamer   Tuesday, January 25, 2005, 01:17 GMT
Actually I am sorry, I wish I could take that back as I am sure you love your homeland as much as I do. Please forgive me and I wont be bothering you anymore.
Eastrerner   Tuesday, January 25, 2005, 10:57 GMT
Questo é un passaggio chi ha immortalizzato la lingua occitana nella litteratura, é della Divina Commedia, Purgatorio, Canz. XXVI.

«Tan m'abellis vostre cortes deman,
qu'ieu no me puesc ni voill a vos cobrire.
Ieu sui Arnaut, que plor e vau cantan;
consiros vei la passada folor,
e vei jausen lo joi qu'esper, denan.
Ara vos prec, per aquella valor
que vos guida al som de l'escalina,
sovenha vos a temps de ma dolor»

Those must have been happy times when Occitan was so widely understood that it was no concern for Dante to include a passage in Occitan to bring his admired master-troubadour to life. Are there French people who would say today that it is written in a "patois"? That would be absurd, to say the least.
helen   Tuesday, January 25, 2005, 18:38 GMT
Yes, that´s right
Xatufà   Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 15:26 GMT
"Castille, of course, discovered America and forbade the Catalans trading with South America"

Ya me acuerdo. Me enseñaron eso en la escuela el año pasado. Castilla era la única que negociaba con Sudamérica (o quizás la explotaba).


Guayaquil for today: Min. 25º C / Max. 32º C

I'd like to be under those blizzards to cool a bit.
helen   Thursday, January 27, 2005, 14:23 GMT
Yes, that´s right, xatufá
Xatufan   Friday, January 28, 2005, 14:44 GMT
Of courseªªª!!!
Jean   Saturday, January 29, 2005, 22:37 GMT
I'm west-flemish and I can understand an Afrikaner perfectly and vica versa...
Ved   Sunday, January 30, 2005, 04:07 GMT
BUENO, BUENO, NOS VAN A ECHAR FUERA LOS DOS TIOS POLACOS POR NO ESCRIBIR EN INGLES. ;-)

AHORA TENDRAN QUE UTILIZAR EL SUPER MEMO PARA APRENDER CASTELLANO PARA PODER ESTAR SEGUROS DE QUE NO ESCRIBAMOS ALGO CONTRA ELLOS.

ESTOY ESCRIBIENDO EN MAYUSCULAS PORQ ME DA PEREZA PONER LAS TILDES.
Ved   Sunday, January 30, 2005, 04:20 GMT
As somebody who knows Spanish, I have no problems whatsoever reading texts in other Romance Languages. I usually also understand my Italian friends' conversations in Italian, so they never try to say things about me if I'm present. ;-)

The Catalan and Occitan texts were rather easy too.

...

As a speaker of Serbo-Croatian, I have no problems understanding and talking to Bulgarians, Macedonians and Slovenians, i.e. speakers of other South-Slavic languages.

It becomes a bit harder if you have to talk to a Czech or Russian person, but it is possible if you have no other language in common. Whenever I have Russians in my English class here in Canada and am unable to explain a vocabulary item in English and by miming, I resort to Serbo-Croatian. To my other students' amusement, it almost never fails.

I remember that I used Serbo-Croatian in Prague in the eighties, as not too many people were able to understand or speak English. It worked pretty well, albeit with a number of misunderstandings.

On one occasion, I joined a group of Bulgarian tourists in Thessaloniki, Greece, as they had an excellent guide who was very knowledgeable about the exhibition I was at. Although the guide used lots of technical language, I was able to understand 98% of what she was saying, and even ask questions in Serbo-Croatian.

The situation with speakers of South Slavic languages is very similar to the situation in Scandianavia. Luckily for me, Serbo-Croatian occupies a central position in the dialect continuum, much like Norwegian, so we are able to communicate with everybody. It is harder for a Bulgarian trying to talk to a Slovenian, as their languages are at two extreme ends of the continuum.
Ved   Sunday, January 30, 2005, 04:26 GMT
Oh and yes, I remember what a Bulgarian woman I met in England said about Serbo-Croatian. They find Serbo-Croatian inflexion both puzzling and amusing. SC has an intricate system of morphological endings on verbs, nouns and adjectives (just like Latin), while Bulgarian has largely lost them (like most modern Romance languages). So, she said they found it funny we used "Bulgarian" words with what to them seemed like a collection of funny little endings randomly appended to words for no reason whatsoever.