speaking of haplogroups, why does romania have pretty much the highest amount of r1b, the so called "western" gene, out of eastern europe, along with czechs and slovaks, but they're more central europe. after them it's albania, bulgaria, and poland. coincidence...?
Which Romance language sounds more Slavic?
R1b haplotype is not specially abundant in Romania. Romania has the lowest amounts along with the Serbs and Turks:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:R1bmap.JPG
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:R1bmap.JPG
i guess it depends which map you look at; i was referring to the one earlier in the thread.
http://i48.tinypic.com/qrbr4m.jpg
anyway russia is still lower, and there's places where it's nonexistant. strangely enough, according to the one you posted, it's even found in places like georgia and the caucasus or whatever. how does that work out? pretty far trip from iberia
according to this genetic map, there does seem to be a little overlap between the romanian and italian groups that none of the other east europeans, including greeks, have, and there is considerable overlap between greeks and romanians. interesting. i'm not making any implications though, just noticing.
on the other hand, the uk seems pretty distant from spain
http://www.nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/genetic_map_of_europe_530.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/qrbr4m.jpg
anyway russia is still lower, and there's places where it's nonexistant. strangely enough, according to the one you posted, it's even found in places like georgia and the caucasus or whatever. how does that work out? pretty far trip from iberia
according to this genetic map, there does seem to be a little overlap between the romanian and italian groups that none of the other east europeans, including greeks, have, and there is considerable overlap between greeks and romanians. interesting. i'm not making any implications though, just noticing.
on the other hand, the uk seems pretty distant from spain
http://www.nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/genetic_map_of_europe_530.jpg
In Europe, R1a, again almost entirely in the R1a1a sub-clade, is found at highest levels among peoples of Eastern European descent (Sorbs, Poles, Russians and Ukrainians; 50 to 65%). In the Baltic countries R1a frequencies decrease from Lithuania (45%) to Estonia (around 30%). Levels in Hungarians have been noted between 20 and 60%
There is a significant presence in peoples of Scandinavian descent, with highest levels in Norway and Iceland, where between 20 and 30% of men are in R1a1a. Vikings and Normans may have also carried the R1a1a lineage westward; accounting for at least part of the small presence in the British Isles.
In Southern Europe R1a1a is not normally common but it is widespread. Significant levels have been found in pockets, such as in the Pas Valley in Northern Spain, areas of Venice, and Calabria in Italy. The Balkans shows lower frequencies, and significant variation between areas, for example >30% in Slovenia, Croatia and Greek Macedonia, but <10% in Albania, Kosovo and parts of Greece.
The remains of three individuals, from an archaeological site discovered in 2005 near Eulau (in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany) and dated to about 2600 BCE, tested positive for the Y-SNP marker SRY10831.2. The R1a1 clade was thus present in Europe at least 4600 years ago, and appears associated with the Corded Ware culture.
R1a1a frequencies vary widely between populations within central and northern parts of Eurasia, but it is found in areas including Western China and Eastern Siberia. This variation is possibly a consequence of population bottlenecks in isolated areas and the movements of Scythians in ancient times and later the Turco-Mongols. High frequencies of R1a1a (R-M17 or R-M198; 50 to 70%) are found among the Ishkashimis, Khojant Tajiks, Kyrgyzs, and in several peoples of Russia's Altai Republic.
Although levels are comparatively low amongst some Turkic-speaking groups (e.g. Turks, Azeris, Kazakhs, Yakuts), levels are very high in certain Turkic or Mongolic-speaking groups of Northwestern China, such as the Bonan, Dongxiang, Salar, and Uyghurs. R1a1a is also found among certain indigenous Eastern Siberians, including:Kamchatkans and Chukotkans, and peaking in Itel'man at 22%.
R1a1a has been found in various forms, in most parts of Western Asia, in widely varying concentrations, from almost no presence in areas such as Jordan, to much higher levels in parts of Turkey and Iran.
Wells et al. (2001), noted that in the western part of the country, Iranians show low R1a1a levels, while males of eastern parts of Iran carried up to 35% R1a. Nasidze et al. (2004) found R1a in approximately 20% of Iranian males from the cities of Tehran and Isfahan. Regueiro et al. (2006), in a study of Iran, noted much higher frequencies in the south than the north.
Turkey also shows high but unevenly distributed R1a levels amongst some sub-populations. For example Nasidze et al. (2005) found relatively high levels amongst Kurds (12%) and Zazas (26%).
Further to the north of these Middle Eastern regions on the other hand, R1a levels start to increase in the Caucasus, once again in an uneven way. Several populations studied have shown no sign of R1a, while highest levels so far discovered in the region appears to belong to speakers of the Karachay-Balkar language amongst whom about one quarter of men tested so far are in haplogroup R1a1a.
There is a significant presence in peoples of Scandinavian descent, with highest levels in Norway and Iceland, where between 20 and 30% of men are in R1a1a. Vikings and Normans may have also carried the R1a1a lineage westward; accounting for at least part of the small presence in the British Isles.
In Southern Europe R1a1a is not normally common but it is widespread. Significant levels have been found in pockets, such as in the Pas Valley in Northern Spain, areas of Venice, and Calabria in Italy. The Balkans shows lower frequencies, and significant variation between areas, for example >30% in Slovenia, Croatia and Greek Macedonia, but <10% in Albania, Kosovo and parts of Greece.
The remains of three individuals, from an archaeological site discovered in 2005 near Eulau (in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany) and dated to about 2600 BCE, tested positive for the Y-SNP marker SRY10831.2. The R1a1 clade was thus present in Europe at least 4600 years ago, and appears associated with the Corded Ware culture.
R1a1a frequencies vary widely between populations within central and northern parts of Eurasia, but it is found in areas including Western China and Eastern Siberia. This variation is possibly a consequence of population bottlenecks in isolated areas and the movements of Scythians in ancient times and later the Turco-Mongols. High frequencies of R1a1a (R-M17 or R-M198; 50 to 70%) are found among the Ishkashimis, Khojant Tajiks, Kyrgyzs, and in several peoples of Russia's Altai Republic.
Although levels are comparatively low amongst some Turkic-speaking groups (e.g. Turks, Azeris, Kazakhs, Yakuts), levels are very high in certain Turkic or Mongolic-speaking groups of Northwestern China, such as the Bonan, Dongxiang, Salar, and Uyghurs. R1a1a is also found among certain indigenous Eastern Siberians, including:Kamchatkans and Chukotkans, and peaking in Itel'man at 22%.
R1a1a has been found in various forms, in most parts of Western Asia, in widely varying concentrations, from almost no presence in areas such as Jordan, to much higher levels in parts of Turkey and Iran.
Wells et al. (2001), noted that in the western part of the country, Iranians show low R1a1a levels, while males of eastern parts of Iran carried up to 35% R1a. Nasidze et al. (2004) found R1a in approximately 20% of Iranian males from the cities of Tehran and Isfahan. Regueiro et al. (2006), in a study of Iran, noted much higher frequencies in the south than the north.
Turkey also shows high but unevenly distributed R1a levels amongst some sub-populations. For example Nasidze et al. (2005) found relatively high levels amongst Kurds (12%) and Zazas (26%).
Further to the north of these Middle Eastern regions on the other hand, R1a levels start to increase in the Caucasus, once again in an uneven way. Several populations studied have shown no sign of R1a, while highest levels so far discovered in the region appears to belong to speakers of the Karachay-Balkar language amongst whom about one quarter of men tested so far are in haplogroup R1a1a.
So let me get this straight: Portuguese just sounds Slavic, except in Brasil, but Romanian speakers can sound sort of Slavicish or Eastern European when they speak in English?
Portuguese sounds Slavic only for an uneducated ear; I work with quit a few people form Portugal and by hearing them talking, I would never take them for Slaves.
Romanian doesn't sound Slavic at all... as regarding English, it is difficult to say because I heard very few Romanians speaking English and when I heard them the only thing what came in my mind was that they were Europeans. I had to ask about their origin and so I found out that they were Romanians. As much as I remember though, it didn't sound like Ukrainian or Russian what I would easy have recognized. I have a couple of such at work too. It is very much be possible to sound Eastern/Central European. I don't know these differences...
Romanian doesn't sound Slavic at all... as regarding English, it is difficult to say because I heard very few Romanians speaking English and when I heard them the only thing what came in my mind was that they were Europeans. I had to ask about their origin and so I found out that they were Romanians. As much as I remember though, it didn't sound like Ukrainian or Russian what I would easy have recognized. I have a couple of such at work too. It is very much be possible to sound Eastern/Central European. I don't know these differences...
Spanish are superinsular rather than Latin.
French, Italians, Romansch, Greekies, Balkans, Romanis etc all have more typical (stab your eye out) pointy hooky noses and chin line features than Iberians.
Spanish have a more classic western-like style blocky facial and head framework, while the other meds have a more classical Caucasian facial and head framework.
If you cut the head off a Spaniard and put it into silhouette it would resemble the profile of a German more than a Italian one would.
Spanish women are the most beautiful in Europe though they can be a little stumpy-like and midgety but this has benefits has it makes your pork sword resemble a baseball bat!
French, Italians, Romansch, Greekies, Balkans, Romanis etc all have more typical (stab your eye out) pointy hooky noses and chin line features than Iberians.
Spanish have a more classic western-like style blocky facial and head framework, while the other meds have a more classical Caucasian facial and head framework.
If you cut the head off a Spaniard and put it into silhouette it would resemble the profile of a German more than a Italian one would.
Spanish women are the most beautiful in Europe though they can be a little stumpy-like and midgety but this has benefits has it makes your pork sword resemble a baseball bat!
"but Romanian speakers can sound sort of Slavicish or Eastern European when they speak in English?"
Well, I suppose you're right sometimes, though it isn't always the same as an obvious Russian accent. I don't know, in this video the announcer just sounds funny for example. And I don't know why they're using English anyway lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3SrVFwKZI
But I don't see why Portuguese would get offended if they get mistaken for something else. I doubt they would by the actual Ukrainians though, unless the person listening was drunk or high or something.
Well, I suppose you're right sometimes, though it isn't always the same as an obvious Russian accent. I don't know, in this video the announcer just sounds funny for example. And I don't know why they're using English anyway lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3SrVFwKZI
But I don't see why Portuguese would get offended if they get mistaken for something else. I doubt they would by the actual Ukrainians though, unless the person listening was drunk or high or something.
You speak like everybody else wouldn't know how the other people, you are mentioning here, look like... (Spanish, Italians,Greeks etc).
I know very well how you Spanish guys look like! Hm:not impressive! In the south you look more like the Arabs, in the north, from Madrid up, till San Sebastian, you look more Caucasian.
As speaking about your women? You must be kidding to consider them the most beautiful in Europe....they are not more beautiful than the Greek or Italians ones; by the contrary! To me the most beautiful women in Europe are the the Czech, the Finish and the Dutch, followed by the Romanians. (The Romanian women could gain even more on this scale if they had learn how to use cosmetics. The way they put the make-up, gives them a pretty vulgar look -that's their downside! The young Venezuelan women are superb - the most beautiful in the world! When they get adult and married, they totally lose their beauty and I don't know why!
Speaking about males,in my view, in average the Swedes, the Dutch and the Serbo-Croatians are, the best looking guys in Europe. I did meet though once at a conference a superb man from Romania, (an athletic engineer, about 1.85-1.95 m) with dark hair, white skin, a very manly face and very beautiful blue eyes - resembling to a young Alain Delon.
Also,within a concert I've seen a Greek, a beautiful individual (tall, brunette, very manly face - a la Kirk Douglas with an superb olive skin).
But these two examples are not representative for their nations I assume, therefore, I consider them as exceptions;two superb exceptions! Unfortunately, both of them were married...
I know very well how you Spanish guys look like! Hm:not impressive! In the south you look more like the Arabs, in the north, from Madrid up, till San Sebastian, you look more Caucasian.
As speaking about your women? You must be kidding to consider them the most beautiful in Europe....they are not more beautiful than the Greek or Italians ones; by the contrary! To me the most beautiful women in Europe are the the Czech, the Finish and the Dutch, followed by the Romanians. (The Romanian women could gain even more on this scale if they had learn how to use cosmetics. The way they put the make-up, gives them a pretty vulgar look -that's their downside! The young Venezuelan women are superb - the most beautiful in the world! When they get adult and married, they totally lose their beauty and I don't know why!
Speaking about males,in my view, in average the Swedes, the Dutch and the Serbo-Croatians are, the best looking guys in Europe. I did meet though once at a conference a superb man from Romania, (an athletic engineer, about 1.85-1.95 m) with dark hair, white skin, a very manly face and very beautiful blue eyes - resembling to a young Alain Delon.
Also,within a concert I've seen a Greek, a beautiful individual (tall, brunette, very manly face - a la Kirk Douglas with an superb olive skin).
But these two examples are not representative for their nations I assume, therefore, I consider them as exceptions;two superb exceptions! Unfortunately, both of them were married...
In the clips below, you have the occasion to see one of the most appreciated Romanian actor, Ursula. He was also very much appreciated in the country, for his look. It has been said that he looked very much the French Jean Marais, alike. Romanians have a lot a very good looking guys too, you just need to know them. Unfortunately, Europe has taken contact especially with the thefts and criminals from my country and much less with what represents in fact the majority of us - people of good quality.
We are not just the once you guys are seeing on your streets doing all kind of criminal acts. They are criminals and they act similar everywhere in the world. They have no nationality. Romania has had the bad luck to fail under the sphere of influence of the Soviets. That was the beginning of disaster for our nation. It was the moment when we lost all our values, moral and Christian values. In the 90, we paid with our blood (the only ones who did that in the Soviet block) to escape the dictatorship of a fierce Communist. The life in Communist was extremely hard especially for Romanians. Pushed tot he limits of existence in order to fulfill his ambitions, (to became a dept free country), Ceausescu, brought the weakest ones of us to desperation. It is not in our tradition to have criminals, serial killers or rapists, at the scale we face today. That happened only because some of us lost the souls. They felt abandoned by everybody, by democratic nations (after all our unsuccessful fights against communists till 1965) we chained our hopes to the Americans interventions and salvation. We dreamed and hopped that that will happen. It never happen and here we are today with good and bad, trying to re knot the period since we have interrupted the normal evolution of our society, (1940) to the actual level of development of western countries which have had continuity. It is extremely tough for us and when I see how light are you people of western Europe, judging this entire problematic of Romanians, how you judge the whole Romanian nation (after more or less your experiences with some of us), I have to confess that I am deeply disappointed by that. We are more than you see on the streets of Rome, or Barcelona. We are more than your politicians are considering us. But if you rather use prejudices instead of learning more about us, we cannot do much to change it. We only could say that you judge us wrong.
See the clips below; Florin Piersic, Vlad Radescu, Sergiu Nicolaescu, Dida Dragan, Aurelian Andreescu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w-vHrH-INc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTnEaMHfbDU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJTp0RDE3W0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkOd39vnIQA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvUgNEkICGY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WW5-HviixI&feature=related
I am sorry, I probably overreacted and deviated a bit from the main subject but by doing this, I only want to show you that we are not only the once who lives under the Paris bridges, or on the London streets how some of you here, on this forum talked about us. If you really want to know us, you need to dedicate more time to it , and to come in our country, visit our villages, provinces and meet the real Romanian people! You are very welcome at anytime!
God bless you all!
We are not just the once you guys are seeing on your streets doing all kind of criminal acts. They are criminals and they act similar everywhere in the world. They have no nationality. Romania has had the bad luck to fail under the sphere of influence of the Soviets. That was the beginning of disaster for our nation. It was the moment when we lost all our values, moral and Christian values. In the 90, we paid with our blood (the only ones who did that in the Soviet block) to escape the dictatorship of a fierce Communist. The life in Communist was extremely hard especially for Romanians. Pushed tot he limits of existence in order to fulfill his ambitions, (to became a dept free country), Ceausescu, brought the weakest ones of us to desperation. It is not in our tradition to have criminals, serial killers or rapists, at the scale we face today. That happened only because some of us lost the souls. They felt abandoned by everybody, by democratic nations (after all our unsuccessful fights against communists till 1965) we chained our hopes to the Americans interventions and salvation. We dreamed and hopped that that will happen. It never happen and here we are today with good and bad, trying to re knot the period since we have interrupted the normal evolution of our society, (1940) to the actual level of development of western countries which have had continuity. It is extremely tough for us and when I see how light are you people of western Europe, judging this entire problematic of Romanians, how you judge the whole Romanian nation (after more or less your experiences with some of us), I have to confess that I am deeply disappointed by that. We are more than you see on the streets of Rome, or Barcelona. We are more than your politicians are considering us. But if you rather use prejudices instead of learning more about us, we cannot do much to change it. We only could say that you judge us wrong.
See the clips below; Florin Piersic, Vlad Radescu, Sergiu Nicolaescu, Dida Dragan, Aurelian Andreescu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w-vHrH-INc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTnEaMHfbDU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJTp0RDE3W0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkOd39vnIQA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvUgNEkICGY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WW5-HviixI&feature=related
I am sorry, I probably overreacted and deviated a bit from the main subject but by doing this, I only want to show you that we are not only the once who lives under the Paris bridges, or on the London streets how some of you here, on this forum talked about us. If you really want to know us, you need to dedicate more time to it , and to come in our country, visit our villages, provinces and meet the real Romanian people! You are very welcome at anytime!
God bless you all!
I have heard that Romanian can be spoken using more Slavic vocabulary or more Romance vocabulary, and both are considered correct?
Yeah, as tempting as it is, you can't really judge an entire people or country based off a few negative personal experiences. Maybe the ones going to Spain and Italy are just the worse part of the people. But if you meet others who moved to places like America, Canada, and Australia, or even most in their actual home country that didn't leave, you'll find that they're often pretty cultured and respectful people, not the desperate rabble you find in the streets and other places. The ones I met in the States were civilized and normal. Before this recent EU thing and the resulting migration, relations were once somewhat better with the west, from what I hear.
And I have to admit that some Romanian women can look pretty damn good. But every country has it's good and bad.
And I have to admit that some Romanian women can look pretty damn good. But every country has it's good and bad.
If you use more Slavic vocabulary you will end up nowhere. What it means to use more of that or more of this? Are you serious? If I am using more German vocabulary or more French would you British boy, understand what I am telling say? You cannot even pronounce my name correctly, (Vlastimir) what about talking this or that as you are saying? You either speak a language or not speak it. Point! There is no alternative, what is all this bullshit for?
If you use more Slavic vocabulary you will end up drinking vodka and dancing kalinka.