>>Ana<<
As a speaker of Panamanian Spanish The Castillian variety of Spanish can sound rigid and hard to the ear (with an apparent sh sound in the words and the th sounds). Just as many Brazillians say Eu portuguese sounds harsh and rigid ( with the exception for the Portuguese close to the border to Galicia which is my personal favourite in Porugal) . In Spain you tend to speak too rapidly and it can make it difficult to the speaker of a Americas variety of Spanish to understand you. A lot of your speech patterns also sound very archaic to us and we tend to like Brazilian Portuguese better than Castilian Spanish ( it is a lot softer on the ears than Castilian and more easy to understand in some instances). Thugh it is Portuguese and not Spanish. By the way that is the opinion of many Latinos I know and it is not really spoken about but I decided to say it. Oh by the way Ana, to a Latin American, Brazilian Portuguese sounds closer to Spanish than Italian. Maybe because of the fact that you are in spain and come in contact and see many Italians around you is why you understand it better and not because Italian is closer to Spanish which is utter nonsense!
well, south american spanish and portuguese soud very lazy to us europeans and its very tralala sounding very Lazy sounding and somehow childish I prefer the EU versions by far...
Exactly you castilians will never understand us Latinos and are culture. That is why we feel much closer to the Brazilians than the Spanish in spain. Since the Brazilians are apart of the Latino culture and share are similarities that is why we respect each other.
JGreco
"Brazilian Portuguese sounds closer to Spanish than Italian. Maybe because of the fact that you are in spain and come in contact and see many Italians around you is why you understand it better"
You might be right.
"That is why we feel much closer to the Brazilians than the Spanish in spain. Since the Brazilians are apart of the Latino culture "
I can´t see any harm in that and yes! we dont feel like part of the latino culture i think that most Spanish feel closer to European culture, but thats unavoidable for geographical reasons.
Dante
"tercera mundo"
Dante, in spanish we say tercer mundo..where are you from, by the way?
"closer to European culture, but thats unavoidable for geographical reasons" I forgot to add historical reasons as well.
Castillian Spanish and Continental Portuguese are so bad-sounding, they sound like cows spitting...Sorry, dudes, you must face it, the future of Spanish and Portuguese is in the Americas.
Dear LALAW, you might be right. It only seems logical, given the huge numbers of Spanish and Portuguese speakers in Latin America, that the future of those languages is in the Americas.
bernard: "While Spain and portugal share the same peninsula, with the same iberian, arabic, wisigothic influences that don't share italian, Catalan or french".
I agree that French and Italian are very close and that there's a different kind of propinquity between French and Spanish or between Italian and Spanish. That said, I'm wondering about the extent and nature of Wisigothic influence upon the languages spoken in Gotholony (the geographic cradle of Catalan) and Septimany (an Old-Languedocian-speaking area temporarily held by king Alaric II until he was killed in 507 at Vouillé by Clovis) also known as the Marquisate of Gothy. As for Arabic influence, I couldn’t evaluate its contribution on Catalan and Languedocian with much precision. However I know Arabophone humanists and scientists had an enormous impact on the intellectual life of the peoples located between the Ebro and the Rhône rivers. Those Arabophones were Andalusians, Maghrebines, Levantines or even came from Araby. Among them were Sepharad Jewish who brought so much to Occitany as the history of cities like Narbonne or Carpentras shows.
"we dont feel like part of the latino culture i think that most Spanish feel closer to European culture, but thats unavoidable for geographical reasons. I forgot to add historical reasons as well."
And also to the north african cultures (e.g. Morocco and Western Sahara) for unavoidable geographical and historical reasons.
>>LALAW<<<
''Castillian Spanish and Continental Portuguese are so bad-sounding, they sound like cows spitting...''
I love that comment you made and I never heard it said like that . I almost fell out of my seat laughing when I read your post. Good comment.
Anyways, to continue I just went through a situation today when shopping for groceries. There were these Castilian ladies behind me in the check out line that proceeded to try to have a conversation with me in Spanish. Upon hearing my accent they told me "Where are you from" I told them "I was born in Panama to Brazilian-Portuguese and Panamanian parents". They said
"Oh we thought you were from Spain (since I am fair complected with blue eyes and red hair). They gave me a dirty look and would not talk to me again. I tell you this to show you the racist superiority complex that many Castilian people have towards Latinos no matter what they look like wether Indian or White. O have heard similar situations told to me by Brazilian Latinos about European Portuguese people.
It is very sad to say but it is true and it is why we do not relate to any Iberians (It is a whole other culture).
I'm sorry i'm still laughing about that comment of LALAW....
"we dont feel like part of the latino culture i think that most Spanish feel closer to European culture, but thats unavoidable for geographical reasons. I forgot to add historical reasons as well."
What is "latino" culture... If you speak about latinoAmerican culture I don't think such a thing exist. In latin America the only common thing is latin culture, the impact of the latin countries that colonized and emigrated to this part of America (Spain, Portugal(brazil), France(haiti, guyane), italian emigration to argentina...) - influence of roman catholic church.
Apart of these European influences I don't thing there is something in common in All latin-american countries. Music like Salsa, Merengue, bachatta, Etc.. are tipical only of the caribean region, where have been a strong influence of African populations, it is not the case in all latin-america.
In the andean region, the local culture is deeply influenced by native culture (quechua, aymara, Inca), the same for Mexico whose native indian part is huge. Other countries are mainly European rooted, without significative indian or african influence ; Argentina, uruguay or south Brazil.
" Spanish feel closer to European culture... "
MMhum... European culture ?! I don't see what it means. there is a lot of very different cultures in Europe. Germanic countries, latin countries, hellenic countries, slavic countries... Catholic countries, protestant countries, orthodox countries, muslim countries... monarchies, republics... rich countries, poor countries, etc... cold countries, warm countries, etc...
«I have heard similar situations told to me by Brazilian Latinos about European Portuguese people. »
Mind you the Portuguese don't have an easy life in Brazil either.
Brazilians will constantly ridicule them.
I would say that 90 % of the Portuguese love Brazil. It is where they go on holiday these days, for the last 20 years one can watch 3 Brazilian soap operas per day, you can hear Brazilian music everywhere. Brazilian expressions are adopted in Portugal.
bernard
"MMhum... European culture ?! I don't see what it means. "
Hi bernard, well i do see what it means. I can´t help feeling european and i don´t feel latin american at all. I see Latin americans as foreigners though we speak "almost" the same language. I don´t mean to disrespect anybody here so please don´t missunderstand! its just a matter of feelings.
Portuguese and Spanish
"And also to the north african cultures (e.g. Morocco and Western Sahara) for unavoidable geographical and historical reasons."
No we Spaniards dont feel that way.. We are a European country, i mean,..the european continent, just look at a map and you´ll understand what i mean. That (e.g. Morocco and Western Sahara) is the African continent and Latin America is in the american continent, that is, not the african continent or Europe.
About Europe..im going to say something that i´m sure that most people here dont know.. we do have some policies in the EU (European Union)which only affect to european countries such as the same currency in all europe (the euro), the right to move and work freely in every country (inside the EU) that we choose, having just the same rights as any native citizen of the place etc, etc...and all this only affects to Europeans, not to people from morocco or sahara or latin america. Thats the way it is....im not telling any lie.
It´s just the same case in the USA. A citizen from Arizona state, feels closer to another one from California state than s/he feels to another one from Mexico just because they both belong to the USA, no matter their proximity to Mexico. Please correct me if im wrong but i think that all im saying is obvious.
bernard
"What is "latino" culture"
Well im not too sure but you´ll see that many people here are refering to it all the time and i guess it must be the common feeling that latin americans have about belonging to a same group. They recognize that this latin culture exists ...for example, as george said " Latin Americans should stick together, because together they will be a force to be reckoned with"..now about the details of this "latino" or latin american culture..i dont know, i think that george or any other latin american could explain it better than me, as i can only guess or resort to stereotypes which might be wrong.
jgreco
"They gave me a dirty look and would not talk to me again. I tell you this to show you the racist superiority complex that many Castilian people have towards Latinos no matter what they look like wether Indian or White. O have heard similar situations told to me by Brazilian Latinos about European Portuguese people"
jgreco, i think that you have an unbelievable latino complex. You must overcome it, being a latino is not bad, here in Spain we love you...just love yourself too.
About that story i dont believe it, i think that you missinterpreted the ladies and there was not such look. What i´ve noticed is that many latin americans who move to Spain bring with them a suitcase full of prejudices on Spain and the spaniards and so they find it quite difficult to integrate in our society due to that defensive attitude that they take. If you dont open to the country where you get you wont be able to fit in it. In my city Latin americans just create their own ghettos, no matter the efforts of the authorities to help them integrate. Lately they were given a park so that they could meet there and chill out and spend their free time
and even though it used to be a very nice place, nowadays nobody except latin americans can go there anymore because they just start insulting you and telling you to go. You cant integrate in another country when you perform such behaviour. I´d never do that if i moved abroad!..i think these people are just ignorants and they´re doing no good to the image some Spaniards are getting about latin americans.
And this being said i just want to add that my brother is married with a lovely ecuadorian girl so i know that not all latin americans behave like that. I dont have any prejudice against ALL latin americans because im grown up enough to try to see further althogh sometimes it can get difficult to try to be understanding.
"Where are you from" I told them "I was born in Panama to Brazilian-Portuguese and Panamanian parents".
1. what does Brazilian-Portuguese parents mean? You meant brazilian parents.
"O have heard similar situations told to me by Brazilian Latinos about European Portuguese people."
2. I would say it is the other way around. As Jo said, many Brazilians discriminate (very courteosly expressed) the portuguese. Many Brazilians I have met in Germany (and there are lots of them here) turn around without any reason or even try to ridicule me, when I tell them that my parents are from Portugal. And mind you I can speak both variants of portuguese very well. I could also tell you many stories about my relatives who live in São Paulo and São Luís de Maranhão.
For my part I do not resent this attitude of many brazilians, I think they must have their reasons. I love their culture and specially their music. And I think this the way most portuguese people feel about brazilians.