Are Portuguese and Brazilian the same language?

"as far as I'm concerned, In Europe (I am from Poland) We only learn the continental version of English (British English) Spanish from Spain, Portuguese from Portugal."
Pawel: you really let me down now because you're repeating the speech of the richest nations even though you come from Poland...

"Please note that if you take an exam in English (British English) and use American spelling - YOU FAIL !!! Some for Spanish and Portuguese.
You Brazilians and South American Spanish should learn TO LOVE the continental version, Like Americans LOVE the British Accent."
It's interesting to see you deviating so much from the subject because the point in this topic is the mutual intelligibility of Portuguese and Brazilians speakers. Again, you're wrong again because you're generalizing your opinion and saying that over 200 million AMERICANS love British accent. Most people I KNOW don't like British accent, neither do I. But that's not an excuse to criticize British English. I respect all varieties of the language.

"And please dont mention how big the Brazilian economy is compared with Portugal (You have to Compare GDP PER CAPITA not PER Country). "
Still, Portugal doesn't get even close to Brazil, reason why there's the need to criticize.

"You know why, i am being so nasty towards Brazilians? Because i see that everyday in England (where I work) they make fun about Portuguese workers here. "
You are being nasty because you are generalizing what you've seen and not reality as a whole. Sorry but one mistake doesn't justify the other. MANY PEOPLE might make fun of the Portuguese and the opposite is true: Many Portuguese look down on Brazilians but I don't have ALL THE PORTUGUESE because of that. See the world and grow up!!

"We know you hate them, but hey (None of the Brazilian were WHITE - they are all Mixed with Blacks) So maybe that is why you hate them.
No civilised country in the world would accept a language Like Brazzilian over Portuguese. "
Mamma mia!! You really don't know much about Brazil huh? In the state of Paraná there are many Polish , Ukranians and if you go to Rio Grande do Sul there are many Germans (Or you think Gisele Bündchen got her surname from Tanzania...). In Rio de Janeiro there's even a Finnish colony. Maybe the "superior" educational European system didn't teach you that...
Only people like you don't accept Brazilian Portuguese (I'm glad I have nothing against Polish people because I had a good friend who spoke perfect European Portuguese and always talked to me) because even the French call our language "brésilien". There's even the book "Le Brésilien sans peine" in case you don't know.

"When Brazil will be a civilised country - currently only 70% can read and write, and people live in ghettos (FAVELAS) - Third world.
When you stop hating Portuguese and become a civilised nation, Then YES people will learn Brazilian version, ant not Portuguese."
Dude, you really need to go to Rio and São Paulo so your biased view might change. Even if only 70% of Brazilians could read at least they would at least know where Poland is because you show not to know ANYTHING about Brazil!! Even the economy of São Paulo alone is bigger than Poland's...

Dowidzenia!!

<< Cuba is a highly developed country. I would say Cuba has higher development than Italy. Also, Brazil is more developed than Russia (Moscow, St. Peterspurg - not backwaters). >>

Cuba is lower development than Burkina Faso, Burundi, or Togo. But Russia and Italy have higher than those 3 countries.

Mate, please stop it. Brazil is a poor country, by all means, and people live on less than 100 euros a month. You got to ask the illegal Brazilians, working in Britain, Portugal, France and all over. They'll tell you the real story about your "rich country" of 75 GB Pounds (100 euro) a month, wages and Sparkling corruption.

ID - Cards and driving License with Fingerprint (no signature) for illiterates
São Paulo - Crime capital of the world.

"Even the economy of São Paulo alone is bigger than Poland's... "
Please give us a brake with your false Brazilian economy.

India's Economy is bigger than the Economy of France. BUT YOU CANT COMPARE FRANCE with INDIA.

And Brazilians are very racist, misogynist, homophobic and uneducated, my dear. At least the ones we have in Europe.

A work mate of mine, Everaldo even mentioned " I have Black ancestry in my family - but I still don't like them) Many half-whites share the same view. Brazilians are the GOSSIP Masters - they seem to know every rumor - and dont understand "PRIVACY"

"Mate, please stop it. Brazil is a poor country, by all means, and people live on less than 100 euros a month. You got to ask the illegal Brazilians, working in Britain, Portugal, France and all over. They'll tell you the real story about your "rich country" of 75 GB Pounds (100 euro) a month, wages and Sparkling corruption."
Dude, poor country and UNFAIR DISTRIBUTION OF INCOME are different things. If you talk about corruption and bad income distribution I might agree with you, but calling Brazil a poor country shows you don't know about the country.

"ID - Cards and driving License with Fingerprint (no signature) for illiterates
São Paulo - Crime capital of the world. "
Again, this might be a part of reality but doesn't show it as a whole.

"Even the economy of São Paulo alone is bigger than Poland's... "
Please give us a brake with your false Brazilian economy."
Maybe the truth hurts but having someone from Poland talking about Brazil isn't one of the most convincing things for a Brazilian.

"India's Economy is bigger than the Economy of France. BUT YOU CANT COMPARE FRANCE with INDIA."
I guess you're right!! Most people from India I met were very nice and didn't have the same superiority complex you have.

"And Brazilians are very racist, misogynist, homophobic and uneducated, my dear. At least the ones we have in Europe."
It's funny to hear this from you because you're generalizing over 180 million people, being racist and showing that you're the uneducated one. I know Brazilians in Europe continuing their studies in order to get their Phds and speak AT LEAST 3 languages fluently. I have a friend in Japan who got his post doctor in Germany and speaks French, Spanish, English, Japanese, German and Italian in addition to Portuguese. I guess you gotta know smarter people so you can have a CORRECT view of Brazil.

"A work mate of mine, Everaldo even mentioned " I have Black ancestry in my family - but I still don't like them) Many half-whites share the same view. Brazilians are the GOSSIP Masters - they seem to know every rumor - and dont understand "PRIVACY""
Too bad your friend isn't proud of his roots. I have African ancestry and am PROUD of it(I could talk about racism and the factors that led your friend to hate his roots but probably you wouldn't understand). As far as I've seen you seem to be the master of gossip because your opinion is based on RUMORS rather than on your own experience. I'm glad I have nothing against POLISH or any other people even though there might be nasty people in every country.
Learn foreign languages and travel the world (Go to Brazil so you can see reality with your OWN eyes) and maybe you'll learn something.

I went to Brazil and there was blood all over the street and the smell of gunpowder everywhere.

I agré with whoever say about Brazilian hatin Portugaise. They hate the Portugaise, they call Portugaise buru (stupid) viado (gay) etc. I hear this everyday in Lille, France.

at polish guy - Ce n'est pas gentil de parler des autres comme tu le fais!

"Ce n'est pas gentil de parler des autres comme tu le fais!"
Merci dude!! At least someone here isn't attacking people.
This topic should be closed because the subject has been way too deviated.

A bientôt!!

Portugal is a parasite of Europe. After stealing our Brazilian gold and diamonds they spent it all and now they are enjoying help from Germany, UK and France (European Union)...

We want our Minas Gold back!

Some examples of the crazy grammar of Brazilian Portuguese:

They use the personal pronoun 'você' for the second person of the singular in informal speech. When 'você' is the subject of the sentence (nominative case), they say for example:
"Você é meu amor" (you are my love).

So far so good.

But instead of using the accusative pronouns corresponding to 'você', which are 'a' and 'o', they use the accusative pronoun corresponding to the personal pronoun 'tu'. So instead of saying "Eu o amo" or "Eu a amo" they say "Eu te amo" (this would be correct if they would use the personal pronoun 'tu').

In Portugal they say in informal speech :
"Tu és meu amor".
Portuguese also use the pronoun 'você' (with the correspondig accusative pronoun), if they were talking to someone they know, but the relationship is not completely without distance.

Despite this differences it is still not so difficult to reconciliate the brazilian variant with the european variant.

However, when it comes to verb conjugation forms and personal pronouns, the brazilian grammar usage is a mess. They use the pronoun 'você' with the conjugation form of the personal pronoun 'tu', like for e.g. in the famous famous brazilian song "me deixas louco" (you make crazy, or you leave me crazy):
"...Quando caminho pela rua
Lado a lado com você
Me deixas louco
E quando escuto o som alegre do teu riso..."

In the ears of someone who has learned European Portuguese this sounds ridiculous, infantile, illogical, incomprehensible. The use of the possessive pronouns is also incorrect in the example mentioned above.
And the thing becomes even more chaotic when you hear they say sentences like"você sabe como eu te amo", since they suddenly use the right conjugation form of the verb corresponding to the pronoun 'você' but namely the false accusative pronoun.

And when you hear them use the pronoun 'tu' with the conjugation form of the verb corresponding to the third person, e.g.:
'tu é uma safada' or 'tu é gostosa', then you do not understand the logic of their language anymore.

And the imperative forms of the verb of Brazilians Portuguese are also very funny. But this is a separate chapter...

Nevertheless, I think that the language that they speak is still Portuguese, and not a separate language.

When we learn German - we learn "Hoch Deutsch - High German" not Austrian - German (Bavarian German dialect)

When we learn French - we learn the official language from France (not Belgian or Quebec's version)

Same for Spanish, Portuguese, English, etc.

''Some examples of the crazy grammar of Brazilian Portuguese:

They use the personal pronoun 'você' for the second person of the singular in informal speech. When 'você' is the subject of the sentence (nominative case), they say for example:
"Você é meu amor" (you are my love).

So far so good.

But instead of using the accusative pronouns corresponding to 'você', which are 'a' and 'o', they use the accusative pronoun corresponding to the personal pronoun 'tu'. So instead of saying "Eu o amo" or "Eu a amo" they say "Eu te amo" (this would be correct if they would use the personal pronoun 'tu'). ''



Continental Portuguese speakers do the same, in plural:

Standard Continental Portuguese:
1. Vós sois belos. Amo-vos. or
2. Vocês são belos. Amo-os.
--------------------------
Colloquial Continental Portuguese mixes 1. (vos) and 2. (vocês):
Vocês são belos. Amo-vos.


In Brazil, no one mixes VOCÊS (3rd person plural) and VOS (2nd person plural).

and in Standard Brazilian Portuguese we say:

1. Você é belo. Eu amo você (singular)
2. Vocês são belos. Eu amo vocês (plurals)

(te is used only in some areas of Brazil, for example, in Vitória
people rarely use it)

"Are Portuguese and Brazilian the same language?"
You should rephrase that question to "Are European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese the same language?" and then you'd get your answer right there.


It's pointless to start once again arguing "oh, in Portugal people say this, and in Brazil say that", who cares? Both countries are rich in regionalisms and influences, nothing is black and white, and all those differences aren't enough to say the language is not the same.
Same goes for other variants, Angolan Portuguese, Mozambican Portuguese, Azores Portuguese, what is this?? The official language of all these countries is Portuguese, just that.


Now if someone wants to discuss those differences in a peaceful and respectful way, that's fine.

PS
Of course, Azores is not a country

"Now if someone wants to discuss those differences in a peaceful and respectful way, that's fine."
Thanks Zatsu!!! There's nothing better than a rational and polite discussion where ALL can learn!!

Guest:
If you want to speak about BRAZILIAN grammar please talk about the WRITTEN and not INFORMAL grammar (even if you do so please quote the region you refer to because in Southern Brazil TU is conjugated "correctly"). No educated person would write VOCÊ conjugation form since it uses the third person of singular. Still, since VOCÊ comes from "Vossa mercê", it's a very formal word.
Brazil is a VERY big country and generalization doesn't work like "Brazilians palatalize "T" and "D" in front of "i" because in northeast dialects (Bahia for instance) once says "Tia" like "tee ah" and "Dia" like "dee ah". People from Rio Grande do Sul say "tu fazes", "tu queres" and other "tu" conjugations and like to make fun of people who say "você".

Please separate "regionalisms" and "written language".
By the way, I'd like to know your view about imperative form. But please do it based on the NORMATIVE GRAMMAR and not based on songs you've heard or your friends' speech.

Inté!