Hi Pete and others as always for your feedback. Okay, there are a number of things that need to be cleared up. First, Portugal does not need to basque in the glory of Brazil's economic achievements, or any other countries achievements. That's the first myth. Secondly, Europe's cultural blossoming in the Renaissance was as much a product of Portugal as of Italy. Thirdly, You say that the Portuguese committed atrocities against the native peoples of its colonies. No one will dispute that this occurred. But all of the other European colonial powers did the same, and I would argue even worse. Is England's colonial history untarnished? France's? Spain's? I digress. And last but not least, there is nothing delusional about the standing of the Portuguese language - the numbers speak for themselves. Oh, and one more thing, it nauseates me how some of you in this discussion board pass yourselves off as so morally righteous. Words like 'cicilized' and 'uncivilized' get thrown around here like hot potatoes. You want to talk about 'uncivilized', fine. Let's look at the most powerful country on earth, the United States. How morally superior are they? They had a civil war (can't even get along among themselves),they instituted slavery, they decimated the native Indians, they love starting wars, and they arguably are the country with the most social corruption in the world. They are a rich natin, yes, but 'civilized'? Come on. Before anyone introduces the notions of civility, intelligence and industrial savvy, let them first look at the historical record of those so called 'civilized countries. And guest, don't use France as an example. I was referring to 'ex-colonies'. Show me one ex-French colony that measures up to Brazil in terms of numbers of speakers, geographical size, and a growing economy. JOrge.
Which language is more important, French or Spanish?
Chinese : tâche de faire preuve de présence d'esprit ! Le message « saisissant » écrit par « Guest » (!!!) n'est qu'un copier-coller d'un site commercial... Tu n'as qu'à cliquer sur le lien fourni pour t'en rendre compte.
Voici d'autres informations :
http://www.frenchteachers.org/bulletin/articles/promote/top%20languages.pdf
http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/languages.htm
http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/worldlang.htm
http://www.softcatala.org/articles/article60.htm
Tu verras que la français est la 2e langue mondiale à bien des égards : la plus apprise, la plus présente sur internet, la plus influente.
Voici d'autres informations :
http://www.frenchteachers.org/bulletin/articles/promote/top%20languages.pdf
http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/languages.htm
http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/worldlang.htm
http://www.softcatala.org/articles/article60.htm
Tu verras que la français est la 2e langue mondiale à bien des égards : la plus apprise, la plus présente sur internet, la plus influente.
This is in response to Trimi post..you said the following
Different oral varieties, same language, american english or quebec french are far away from queen's english and continental French than Galizan speakers from so-called "portuguese" (of Portugal, I mean)
Well, of course portuguese (galizan included) and spanish are quite similar languages, and most of Portuguese people can understand spanish without difficulty (here arise the "portunhol")... spaniards can't do the same, usually 'cause they seem to dislike all languages (specially the ones spoken in “Spain”)… except their own, of course! they don't see a fuckin movie in its original language but all translated to an awful standard spanish... I hate this, Portugal make these things right and so Portuguese kids learn easily English, Spanish and even another languages
My opinion, Spanish is useless, I would prefer to being colonized by frenchies or british
acho que não são línguas tão parecidas, há semelhanças como há diferenças e sempre há que falar de níveis de uso, não é o mesmo bater um papo informalmente que escrever um romance em português ou em espanhol, a aprendizagem correcta da língua leva anos de esforço e o parecido até que pode dificultar isso
Saudações portugalegas!
HONESTLY...you dont even sound like a spaniard/gallego or galego...you sound like someone who is bitter. There are a dew seperate languages in Spain apart from the National lnaguage of Castellano. YOu can find the same comparison like in Latin American countries where Castillian is the official language , however there are indian languages still spoken to this day apart from Spanish. Dont be ignorant in your comments, Spain has a national language...and has other language within its country...Vasco, Catalan, Galego..etc...Whereas in Portugal you have Portuguese...so you would not have these little stupid fights over language like you would in Spain. I know many gallegos and have that in my blood, to me you dont sound like a gallego at all, but you do sound like a bitter person that has nothing nice to say about his people.....QUE VERGUENZA.!!. YOu know that the PORTUGUESE people stand united and would never belittle their countryman or country....I doubt you are Spanish, if you are..." FALTA DE RESPECTO Y FALTA DE VERGUENZA!!!
Different oral varieties, same language, american english or quebec french are far away from queen's english and continental French than Galizan speakers from so-called "portuguese" (of Portugal, I mean)
Well, of course portuguese (galizan included) and spanish are quite similar languages, and most of Portuguese people can understand spanish without difficulty (here arise the "portunhol")... spaniards can't do the same, usually 'cause they seem to dislike all languages (specially the ones spoken in “Spain”)… except their own, of course! they don't see a fuckin movie in its original language but all translated to an awful standard spanish... I hate this, Portugal make these things right and so Portuguese kids learn easily English, Spanish and even another languages
My opinion, Spanish is useless, I would prefer to being colonized by frenchies or british
acho que não são línguas tão parecidas, há semelhanças como há diferenças e sempre há que falar de níveis de uso, não é o mesmo bater um papo informalmente que escrever um romance em português ou em espanhol, a aprendizagem correcta da língua leva anos de esforço e o parecido até que pode dificultar isso
Saudações portugalegas!
HONESTLY...you dont even sound like a spaniard/gallego or galego...you sound like someone who is bitter. There are a dew seperate languages in Spain apart from the National lnaguage of Castellano. YOu can find the same comparison like in Latin American countries where Castillian is the official language , however there are indian languages still spoken to this day apart from Spanish. Dont be ignorant in your comments, Spain has a national language...and has other language within its country...Vasco, Catalan, Galego..etc...Whereas in Portugal you have Portuguese...so you would not have these little stupid fights over language like you would in Spain. I know many gallegos and have that in my blood, to me you dont sound like a gallego at all, but you do sound like a bitter person that has nothing nice to say about his people.....QUE VERGUENZA.!!. YOu know that the PORTUGUESE people stand united and would never belittle their countryman or country....I doubt you are Spanish, if you are..." FALTA DE RESPECTO Y FALTA DE VERGUENZA!!!
Would Portuguese be more and more important or useful the same as Spanish in the near future? And Why? Thanks!
C'est une obsession ! Apprends les 2 langues comme ça y a plus de problème !
Chinese? Are you a moron? Go to wiki...
Portuguese and Spanish are two different languages. YET, they complement each other because once you learn one you will learn the other one quite easily. If you learn Portuguese and and Spanish together with Chinese, you will know the three most important languages for the 21st century.
So, stop asking stupid questions and hit the books. You will need 7 years to learn Spanish and another five to learn Portuguese. So don´t waste your time on Antimoon. Get a teacher and get lost!
By de way which is the most difficult to learnChinese in the morning or in the afternoon?
Portuguese and Spanish are two different languages. YET, they complement each other because once you learn one you will learn the other one quite easily. If you learn Portuguese and and Spanish together with Chinese, you will know the three most important languages for the 21st century.
So, stop asking stupid questions and hit the books. You will need 7 years to learn Spanish and another five to learn Portuguese. So don´t waste your time on Antimoon. Get a teacher and get lost!
By de way which is the most difficult to learnChinese in the morning or in the afternoon?
<<<Godot
<<<By de way which is the most difficult to learnChinese in the morning or in the afternoon?>>>
What does it mean???
<<<By de way which is the most difficult to learnChinese in the morning or in the afternoon?>>>
What does it mean???
Jorge wrote:
"Thirdly, You say that the Portuguese committed atrocities against the native peoples of its colonies."
I have to agree the native were a lot more civilised than the Portuguese they never made prisioners or slaves. For instance the Tupinambá or Munduruku, among other tribes, really apreciated their Portuguese prisioners.... well sesoned and well done, maybe with pineaple or coconut sauce.
“Os índios viviam em bandos. Eram nômades, daí a dificuldade em se determinar com exatidão os pontos onde se fixavam por algum tempo. Também não tinham o costume de escravizar o inimigo, mas de devorá-lo. Nas "caçadas de gente" que promoviam, como registra Hans Staden, cabia às mulheres mais velhas esfolar, cortar e repartir a vítima. Manoel da Nóbrega escreveu que eles engordavam o inimigo vencido para depois devorá-lo.”
"The Indians lived in band. They were nomads, thus the difficulty to determine with exactness the places where they settled for some time. They also did not have the custom to enslave the enemy, but to devour him. In the " people hunts" that they promoted, as Hans Staden registers, it was up to the oldest women to remove the skin, to cut and to handout the victim. Manoel of the Nóbrega wrote that they fattened the captive enemy to devour him later."
http://www.cidadedesaopaulo.com/shMat.asp?idMat=132
http://www.ifch.unicamp.br/ihb/Textos/JSLeopoldi.pdf
"Thirdly, You say that the Portuguese committed atrocities against the native peoples of its colonies."
I have to agree the native were a lot more civilised than the Portuguese they never made prisioners or slaves. For instance the Tupinambá or Munduruku, among other tribes, really apreciated their Portuguese prisioners.... well sesoned and well done, maybe with pineaple or coconut sauce.
“Os índios viviam em bandos. Eram nômades, daí a dificuldade em se determinar com exatidão os pontos onde se fixavam por algum tempo. Também não tinham o costume de escravizar o inimigo, mas de devorá-lo. Nas "caçadas de gente" que promoviam, como registra Hans Staden, cabia às mulheres mais velhas esfolar, cortar e repartir a vítima. Manoel da Nóbrega escreveu que eles engordavam o inimigo vencido para depois devorá-lo.”
"The Indians lived in band. They were nomads, thus the difficulty to determine with exactness the places where they settled for some time. They also did not have the custom to enslave the enemy, but to devour him. In the " people hunts" that they promoted, as Hans Staden registers, it was up to the oldest women to remove the skin, to cut and to handout the victim. Manoel of the Nóbrega wrote that they fattened the captive enemy to devour him later."
http://www.cidadedesaopaulo.com/shMat.asp?idMat=132
http://www.ifch.unicamp.br/ihb/Textos/JSLeopoldi.pdf
"a general 'Iberian' tongue..."
There is not an iberian tongue but what we call iberian languages that include also euskara, catalan etc.
The more contact you have with the other iberian language the easier it becomes.
"la Casa de las Lenguas Ibéricas" was created to promote all iberian languages. If you read the old classics like Herodotus they used to say that in the Iberian peninsula people spoke many languages but the people could all understand each other.
http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/buscavoz/ver_resultado.jsp?TEXTO=100000073461&lnk=CASA,LENGUAS,IBERICAS
There is not an iberian tongue but what we call iberian languages that include also euskara, catalan etc.
The more contact you have with the other iberian language the easier it becomes.
"la Casa de las Lenguas Ibéricas" was created to promote all iberian languages. If you read the old classics like Herodotus they used to say that in the Iberian peninsula people spoke many languages but the people could all understand each other.
http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/buscavoz/ver_resultado.jsp?TEXTO=100000073461&lnk=CASA,LENGUAS,IBERICAS
>>>Is it true that if both languages (Castilian and Portuguese) were put together, there would be a community of some 1 billion people, of first, second, and passive speakers of a general 'Iberian' tongue... ?
I have some Angolan friends that communicate with me in Portuguese. I reply in Castilian. It seems that I understand about 70 percent of what they say. The rest if gibberish. Of course the slower and they speak the more I understand.<<<
We can see this as well in South America, where Lusophones and Hispanophones speak in a common language.
This happens in the borders between a Hispanic country and Brazil, but is more notable in the border between Uruguay and Brazil.
I have some Angolan friends that communicate with me in Portuguese. I reply in Castilian. It seems that I understand about 70 percent of what they say. The rest if gibberish. Of course the slower and they speak the more I understand.<<<
We can see this as well in South America, where Lusophones and Hispanophones speak in a common language.
This happens in the borders between a Hispanic country and Brazil, but is more notable in the border between Uruguay and Brazil.
I think that Spanish is a bit more importent than French because Spanish is practicaly becoming apart of America.
Less than 5% of European Spanish students now learn French. French people learning Spanish are already well above that figure. In Great Britain, Spanish will be above the teaching of French within the next decade according to specialists.
I'm not saying this is good or bad but it is a huge change from the time, until the 1970s, when 80% of Spanish students learnt French or when everybody in Great Britain learnt basic French.
Something is changing and will change even more in the future. I still think Spaniards should learn French, specially in regions such as the Basque Country or Catalonia so near the border.
French, unfortunately, has lost a lot of appeal in Europe and the French government knows it and does it best to change the situation. In the case of Catalonia they are willing to allow more classes of Catalan in French Catalonia as long as French is more widely taught in Spanish Catalonia.
As you can see, politics are also behind the knowledge of languages and France will have to revise all its linguistics policies if it wants to keep a certain hold of neighbouring countries. After all, several languages spoken in neighbouring countries are also spoken in border areas within France.
I'm not saying this is good or bad but it is a huge change from the time, until the 1970s, when 80% of Spanish students learnt French or when everybody in Great Britain learnt basic French.
Something is changing and will change even more in the future. I still think Spaniards should learn French, specially in regions such as the Basque Country or Catalonia so near the border.
French, unfortunately, has lost a lot of appeal in Europe and the French government knows it and does it best to change the situation. In the case of Catalonia they are willing to allow more classes of Catalan in French Catalonia as long as French is more widely taught in Spanish Catalonia.
As you can see, politics are also behind the knowledge of languages and France will have to revise all its linguistics policies if it wants to keep a certain hold of neighbouring countries. After all, several languages spoken in neighbouring countries are also spoken in border areas within France.