<< Pourquoi, pourquoi, pourquoi , why, why, why...
But never a 'because' . >>
Poor guy...
But never a 'because' . >>
Poor guy...
Which language is more important, French or Spanish?
Too lazy to read all the previous messages... the point is - in Europe French is more important than Spanish, in America Spanish is more important than French. It is pointless to try and generalise. Of course, English is the most important globally at this point of history. This might change in the future, as it has so many times in the past, or it might not. Frankly, I don't see the point of this debate.
>>Purely subjective opinion. I myself do not find Spanish 'beautiful' in the least.<<
Too bad. :-(
Too bad. :-(
> I do not want to argue semantics with you, Aldo. Influence power, whatever you'd like to call it. My point is that your point that English is a lingua franca because it is "simple" is utter nonsense.
Tiffany, still you have not explained why you think that way!!!!
Is merely nationalism, is English your mother language ?
if not, please tell me why did you learn it then ? Where and when
did you feel the U.S. "POWER" ? Excuse me if I insist too much
about it but I'd like to know what you think.
Tiffany, still you have not explained why you think that way!!!!
Is merely nationalism, is English your mother language ?
if not, please tell me why did you learn it then ? Where and when
did you feel the U.S. "POWER" ? Excuse me if I insist too much
about it but I'd like to know what you think.
=>United Statians <=
>It seems Aldo is one of 'those' idiots...
It seems we have another of those fanatic nationalists bullies who thinks that U.S. baseball "World Series" is a world championship and who thinks that "American" is a language and America is the name of their country and that Internet and English language belong to U.S. HA! speaking of idiots !
>It seems Aldo is one of 'those' idiots...
It seems we have another of those fanatic nationalists bullies who thinks that U.S. baseball "World Series" is a world championship and who thinks that "American" is a language and America is the name of their country and that Internet and English language belong to U.S. HA! speaking of idiots !
> My point is that your point that English is a lingua franca because it is "simple" is utter nonsense.
I never said it was the only reason but you can't say that simplicity doesn't help.
I never said it was the only reason but you can't say that simplicity doesn't help.
I have never said anything about "power" in the US. You may thank yourself for that. Nationalism... that's laughable.
My point remains that English is not the lingua franca because of it's simplicity.
It may be simple, fine, but that is not the reason. Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca
You'll see that many of the past languages that have served as a lingua franca have not been so because of simplicity. Take French, which still is an international language to this day. Take Latin and Greek which were also past lingua francas. Please tell me how to justify them. Were they simplistic as well?
If English truly is the lingua franca because of it's simplicity, then why was the world not speaking English long ago? It has been around as "Modern English" for a few centuries now.
You did mention you never said simplicity was the only reason. What do you see as the other reasons?
My point remains that English is not the lingua franca because of it's simplicity.
It may be simple, fine, but that is not the reason. Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca
You'll see that many of the past languages that have served as a lingua franca have not been so because of simplicity. Take French, which still is an international language to this day. Take Latin and Greek which were also past lingua francas. Please tell me how to justify them. Were they simplistic as well?
If English truly is the lingua franca because of it's simplicity, then why was the world not speaking English long ago? It has been around as "Modern English" for a few centuries now.
You did mention you never said simplicity was the only reason. What do you see as the other reasons?
> My point remains that English is not the lingua franca because of it's simplicity. It may be simple, fine, but that is not the reason.
I repeat it, I don't think it is the ONLY reason but is a heavy reason. It's much much easier to assimilate a gramatically simpler (comparatively) language that a more complex one.
> Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca You'll see that many of the past languages that have served as a lingua franca have not been so because of simplicity.
Of course not. The reasons are absolutely different. There is an abyss of centuries between our reality and those languages that you mention.
> Take French, which still is an international language to this day.
Let's see what your link to Wikipedia says about it : "French was the language of diplomacy in Europe from the 17th century until its very recent replacement by English."
Note that it mentions only Europe. Please understand that I hate to put a label of importance to any language. I still think that's a nonsense.
> Take Latin and Greek which were also past lingua francas. Please tell me how to justify them. Were they simplistic as well?
Here lies the difference that I mentioned above. Romans and Greeks conquered the rest of Europe through FORCE. They imposed their culture to the others for centuries. I mean, there was not choice for the people dominated so they ended assimilating invader's culture among that: their language. Spanish, French, Italian...etc are an product of that. But ironically see what happened to latin now a dead language.
>If English truly is the lingua franca because of it's simplicity, then why was the world not speaking English long ago? It has been around as "Modern English" for a few centuries now. You did mention you never said simplicity was the only reason. What do you see as the other reasons?
The point isn't: why it was not (if not), the point is: why it's today. Part of the answer is similar to what Romans and Greeks did. British empire extended the English language all around the world a lot more than Italy, France, Portugal, Holland or any other European country theirs (but Spain) and that is part of the reason: English was widely known maybe admired and hated too but widely known.
Other things like the second World War and the victory of allies England and U.S. over nazis and Japaneses, who both were a real peril for the world, raised the admiration for them, for the, let's say, saviors of
the world in that serious trance for the humankind, this counts too. The second part of the reason and the most important for me is a mix of enrichment of English-speaking countries like U.S., England, Canada
Australia...etc and more recently the raise of technology. A new era of huge improvements in comunication directed to the world masses. TV transmitions using satellites for example. Think in one of the most important vias to influence others: music. Who have produced the most popular music ever: England and U.S., examples The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Queen...etc, etc, etc. I insist, it's easier for a simpler language to last than for a more complex one. English has very good sonority as well. And what about the mother of all
improvements: Internet. All this helped and helps to transmit the influence of English (or any other language), add to it: its simplicity. Germany is the highest exporter of the world and China is doing it right.
Do you really think that Chinese or Japanese will be a lingua franca someday ? who knows, but I really really doubt it. Just my opinion.
Now tell me, why do you think English has became a lingua franca ?
I repeat it, I don't think it is the ONLY reason but is a heavy reason. It's much much easier to assimilate a gramatically simpler (comparatively) language that a more complex one.
> Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca You'll see that many of the past languages that have served as a lingua franca have not been so because of simplicity.
Of course not. The reasons are absolutely different. There is an abyss of centuries between our reality and those languages that you mention.
> Take French, which still is an international language to this day.
Let's see what your link to Wikipedia says about it : "French was the language of diplomacy in Europe from the 17th century until its very recent replacement by English."
Note that it mentions only Europe. Please understand that I hate to put a label of importance to any language. I still think that's a nonsense.
> Take Latin and Greek which were also past lingua francas. Please tell me how to justify them. Were they simplistic as well?
Here lies the difference that I mentioned above. Romans and Greeks conquered the rest of Europe through FORCE. They imposed their culture to the others for centuries. I mean, there was not choice for the people dominated so they ended assimilating invader's culture among that: their language. Spanish, French, Italian...etc are an product of that. But ironically see what happened to latin now a dead language.
>If English truly is the lingua franca because of it's simplicity, then why was the world not speaking English long ago? It has been around as "Modern English" for a few centuries now. You did mention you never said simplicity was the only reason. What do you see as the other reasons?
The point isn't: why it was not (if not), the point is: why it's today. Part of the answer is similar to what Romans and Greeks did. British empire extended the English language all around the world a lot more than Italy, France, Portugal, Holland or any other European country theirs (but Spain) and that is part of the reason: English was widely known maybe admired and hated too but widely known.
Other things like the second World War and the victory of allies England and U.S. over nazis and Japaneses, who both were a real peril for the world, raised the admiration for them, for the, let's say, saviors of
the world in that serious trance for the humankind, this counts too. The second part of the reason and the most important for me is a mix of enrichment of English-speaking countries like U.S., England, Canada
Australia...etc and more recently the raise of technology. A new era of huge improvements in comunication directed to the world masses. TV transmitions using satellites for example. Think in one of the most important vias to influence others: music. Who have produced the most popular music ever: England and U.S., examples The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Queen...etc, etc, etc. I insist, it's easier for a simpler language to last than for a more complex one. English has very good sonority as well. And what about the mother of all
improvements: Internet. All this helped and helps to transmit the influence of English (or any other language), add to it: its simplicity. Germany is the highest exporter of the world and China is doing it right.
Do you really think that Chinese or Japanese will be a lingua franca someday ? who knows, but I really really doubt it. Just my opinion.
Now tell me, why do you think English has became a lingua franca ?
>I have never said anything about "power" in the US. You may thank yourself for that. Nationalism... that's laughable.
Somebody mentioned that but it wasn't you. Sorry.
Somebody mentioned that but it wasn't you. Sorry.
Aldo,
=>It seems we have another of those fanatic nationalists bullies who thinks that U.S. baseball "World Series" is a world championship and who thinks that "American" is a language and America is the name of their country and that Internet and English language belong to U.S. HA! speaking of idiots ! <=
It seems we have a person who believes he knows me.
1) I don't care for baseball and with me about 99% of my fellow countrymen.
2) American.Is a variation of English.Just like British English.I know this because of 'education'.Do you know the word?
3) The name of my country is 'the Netherlands' not 'America' which is a continent.And the popular and common name of the United Stated of America.
4) The Internet was invented by the U.S millitary and has since belonged to the world.Just like glasses, microscopes and pizza's.
5) A language,a natural language that is, can never be owned by people or persons.
I actually based my remark on a quotation.You based your on assumption and see where it get's you ... I've demolished all your so-called 'facts' to rubble.Try to be real instead of creative next time Aldo.
=>It seems we have another of those fanatic nationalists bullies who thinks that U.S. baseball "World Series" is a world championship and who thinks that "American" is a language and America is the name of their country and that Internet and English language belong to U.S. HA! speaking of idiots ! <=
It seems we have a person who believes he knows me.
1) I don't care for baseball and with me about 99% of my fellow countrymen.
2) American.Is a variation of English.Just like British English.I know this because of 'education'.Do you know the word?
3) The name of my country is 'the Netherlands' not 'America' which is a continent.And the popular and common name of the United Stated of America.
4) The Internet was invented by the U.S millitary and has since belonged to the world.Just like glasses, microscopes and pizza's.
5) A language,a natural language that is, can never be owned by people or persons.
I actually based my remark on a quotation.You based your on assumption and see where it get's you ... I've demolished all your so-called 'facts' to rubble.Try to be real instead of creative next time Aldo.
<<Now tell me, why do you think English has became a lingua franca ?>>
For all the reasons you mentioned, minus simplicity. Simplicity had nothing to do with it's rise to a lingua franca and while you deny it, you outlined it pretty well. I am confounded as to why you continue to deny something you just spouted off yourself.
And yes, I believe Chinese could well be a lingua franca one day, given it's extreme potential. If it were ever to rise and dominate, every indication points to Chinese (probably Mandarin) becoming the new lingua franca.
For all the reasons you mentioned, minus simplicity. Simplicity had nothing to do with it's rise to a lingua franca and while you deny it, you outlined it pretty well. I am confounded as to why you continue to deny something you just spouted off yourself.
And yes, I believe Chinese could well be a lingua franca one day, given it's extreme potential. If it were ever to rise and dominate, every indication points to Chinese (probably Mandarin) becoming the new lingua franca.
Tout à fait d'accord avec Tiffany : n'importe quelle langue, 'facile' ou 'difficile', a en elle le potentiel de devenir une lingua franca. En plus du potentiel, le mandarin a ajourd'hui les moyens de le devenir à terme.
> For all the reasons you mentioned, minus simplicity. Simplicity had nothing to do with it's rise to a lingua franca
Of course it does!!!! If you agree with the reasons that I expounded except the simplicity then you do agree that it is influence no matter how this influence exists. Japan has a enormous influence over the world through what it produces, Germany too, since decades ago but it doesn't mean that their languages will expand too!!! They are more complex to learn. Wakarimasu ka ???
> and while you deny it, you outlined it pretty well. I am confounded as to why you continue to deny something you just spouted off yourself.
That's not true. I'm saying : influence + simplicity = instant lingua franca.
> And yes, I believe Chinese could well be a lingua franca one day, given it's extreme potential. If it were ever to rise and dominate, every indication points to Chinese (probably Mandarin) becoming the new lingua franca.
Ok, ok I give up, this will be an endless debate. But promise me Tiffany that when it happens you will come here to share your notes about Mandarin with us...if we're alive of course. ;-)
It was fun after all.
All best to you,
Zai jian!
Aldo
Of course it does!!!! If you agree with the reasons that I expounded except the simplicity then you do agree that it is influence no matter how this influence exists. Japan has a enormous influence over the world through what it produces, Germany too, since decades ago but it doesn't mean that their languages will expand too!!! They are more complex to learn. Wakarimasu ka ???
> and while you deny it, you outlined it pretty well. I am confounded as to why you continue to deny something you just spouted off yourself.
That's not true. I'm saying : influence + simplicity = instant lingua franca.
> And yes, I believe Chinese could well be a lingua franca one day, given it's extreme potential. If it were ever to rise and dominate, every indication points to Chinese (probably Mandarin) becoming the new lingua franca.
Ok, ok I give up, this will be an endless debate. But promise me Tiffany that when it happens you will come here to share your notes about Mandarin with us...if we're alive of course. ;-)
It was fun after all.
All best to you,
Zai jian!
Aldo