The problem is that the Muslims consider that their religion is somehow above the others and that they somehow deserve preferential treatment.
Why do Dutch and Scandinavians speak English so well?
you know what's the truth and what's not i wont reply anymore it couldn't be more obvious that you don't 'want' answers. You just want to continue to hate muslim world and you interpret things just like you want,
well go on then, i just sincerely hope every european is not like you. I really hope it, because if it's not the world is heading to a new world war.
well go on then, i just sincerely hope every european is not like you. I really hope it, because if it's not the world is heading to a new world war.
<<if it's not the world is heading to a new world war. >>
What is the alternative to war? If the alternative to war is being forced to become a Muslim I am willing to fight.
What is the alternative to war? If the alternative to war is being forced to become a Muslim I am willing to fight.
Politics and racial issues were never on my mind nor were they on my personal agenda whenever I was in the Netherlands.....I just enjoy the "Dutch experience" - the nature and character of the people generally, their readiness to speak English and their proficiency in its fluency and their acceptance of the overall British lack of ability in speaking other people's Languages and our general reluctance to learn them. I also quite understand the Dutch appreciation that their own Language isn't quite the most attractive to the ears of British people as a rule....which it isn't really, let's be honest.
I like the Dutch landscape, flat as a pancake as it is, and their historic battle against the ever present threats posed by the North Sea tides and occasional sea surges (something they share with their opposite numbers all along the coast of Eastern England over on the other side) is testimony to their fortitude and great engineering skill in land reclamation from those often grey and choppy salty waters.
I enjoyed going to the cheese market at Alkmaar, and although I quite like a wee bit of Gouda or Edam now and again I do have a preference for Cheddar or Stilton or Wensleydale but better still .......a nice bit of ripe Ayrshire.....great with a digestive or a cream cracker and juicy green grapes.
Nothing could be further from my mind on those occasions than the issue of Muslims or Sharia law or ranting Mr Wilders over in the Netherlands or equally raving Nick Griffin and the British National Party here in the UK or the on going problem of bloody Westminster MP's fantastically extravagant expenses claims and the bruised and battered Gordon Brown with scarlet stilleto heels thrust into the small of his back by gobby, irrational, blatantly contradictory feminist female Members in slinky, skimpy scarlet dresses and who have axes to grind seething with almighty but most probably imagined grievances who issue verbal declarations and then, 12 hours later, make similar statements which totally and inexplicably negate entirely those they made earlier.
I like the Dutch landscape, flat as a pancake as it is, and their historic battle against the ever present threats posed by the North Sea tides and occasional sea surges (something they share with their opposite numbers all along the coast of Eastern England over on the other side) is testimony to their fortitude and great engineering skill in land reclamation from those often grey and choppy salty waters.
I enjoyed going to the cheese market at Alkmaar, and although I quite like a wee bit of Gouda or Edam now and again I do have a preference for Cheddar or Stilton or Wensleydale but better still .......a nice bit of ripe Ayrshire.....great with a digestive or a cream cracker and juicy green grapes.
Nothing could be further from my mind on those occasions than the issue of Muslims or Sharia law or ranting Mr Wilders over in the Netherlands or equally raving Nick Griffin and the British National Party here in the UK or the on going problem of bloody Westminster MP's fantastically extravagant expenses claims and the bruised and battered Gordon Brown with scarlet stilleto heels thrust into the small of his back by gobby, irrational, blatantly contradictory feminist female Members in slinky, skimpy scarlet dresses and who have axes to grind seething with almighty but most probably imagined grievances who issue verbal declarations and then, 12 hours later, make similar statements which totally and inexplicably negate entirely those they made earlier.
Since being founded, the US has always had a strong fascist streak - anything and anyone that deviates from the white Anglo-Saxon protestant ideal has been ostracised, criminalised and assasulted: African slaves, Jewish immigrants, socialists, liberals, Muslims, immigrants from Latin America etc. The state has always been seen as supreme, and to even countenance criticism of the status quo is seen as 'unAmerican', the US is seen as the natural, God-endowed supreme power, who has no need and no obligation to listen to anybody, and Americans (that is, white, Anglo-Saxon, protestant Americans) are the supermen. Anyone else is Untermensch scum who want to destroy America and who 'hate freedom'.
the overall British lack of ability in speaking other people's Languages
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no, it's just because you're lazy, dumb and arrogant. But we can speak and insult you in front of you and you're smiling like an idiot because you don't understand at all what we're saying, it's so fun!
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no, it's just because you're lazy, dumb and arrogant. But we can speak and insult you in front of you and you're smiling like an idiot because you don't understand at all what we're saying, it's so fun!
<<I also quite understand the Dutch appreciation that their own Language isn't quite the most attractive to the ears of British people as a rule..>>
Here we go again with Damian and his ridiculous and unfounded bull...
Here we go again with Damian and his ridiculous and unfounded bull...
African slaves, Jewish immigrants, socialists, liberals, Muslims, immigrants from Latin America etc
Add Catholics to the list.
Add Catholics to the list.
the Dutch appreciation that their own Language isn't quite the most attractive to the ears of British
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uh...I don't think so.
But this thread needs moderators, I have read some disgusting posts.
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uh...I don't think so.
But this thread needs moderators, I have read some disgusting posts.
The Dutch probably don't give a damn what the English speakers think about their own language. It's grotesque that a native English speaker can be so arrogant en egocentric when you don't speak a beautiful language a all.
***no, it's just because you're lazy, dumb and arrogant***
That's exactly what I was getting at regarding many Brits (certainly not all by any means...but certainly more than there should be) and the issue of learning foreign Languages....you have described us so well in that respect. Unfortunately, Dutch is not very high on the list of those Brits who make the effort of learning another Language, even though it has linguistic links with English historically. I mean, what use is Dutch anyway when travelling outside of the Netherlands itself and any former Dutch colonies?
As you know, the Dutch are fantastic English speakers - English is virtually a second Language in their country anyway, and when I said that to British ears Dutch comes across as being harsh and guttural I was stating a fact...it plainly does, but no way is that demeaning or degrading the Dutch Language at all...you were being a wee bit sensitive there!
***But we can speak and insult you in front of you and you're smiling like an idiot because you don't understand at all what we're saying, it's so fun!***
As with this Dutch lady? Without the subtitles the gorgeous smile on her face, and the typically Dutch backdrop complete with windmill, would have us believing she was charming the pants off us, and hoping she would keep up the wonderful compliments directed at a monoglot Brit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ak6AmAn_cY&feature=related
btw speaking for myself... no way am I lazy......dumb and arrogant yes, but certainly not lazy!! I resented your accusation big time! Actually that charming Dutch lady didn't sound all that harsh and guttural at all, really......oh well........
That's exactly what I was getting at regarding many Brits (certainly not all by any means...but certainly more than there should be) and the issue of learning foreign Languages....you have described us so well in that respect. Unfortunately, Dutch is not very high on the list of those Brits who make the effort of learning another Language, even though it has linguistic links with English historically. I mean, what use is Dutch anyway when travelling outside of the Netherlands itself and any former Dutch colonies?
As you know, the Dutch are fantastic English speakers - English is virtually a second Language in their country anyway, and when I said that to British ears Dutch comes across as being harsh and guttural I was stating a fact...it plainly does, but no way is that demeaning or degrading the Dutch Language at all...you were being a wee bit sensitive there!
***But we can speak and insult you in front of you and you're smiling like an idiot because you don't understand at all what we're saying, it's so fun!***
As with this Dutch lady? Without the subtitles the gorgeous smile on her face, and the typically Dutch backdrop complete with windmill, would have us believing she was charming the pants off us, and hoping she would keep up the wonderful compliments directed at a monoglot Brit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ak6AmAn_cY&feature=related
btw speaking for myself... no way am I lazy......dumb and arrogant yes, but certainly not lazy!! I resented your accusation big time! Actually that charming Dutch lady didn't sound all that harsh and guttural at all, really......oh well........
Anyway, listen to some musical Dutch and you can make your own minds up whether or not it sounds a wee bit harsh to a native English speaker, although having said that I have to admit that some British regional accents are pretty dreich - not naming any specifically here except to say that Scouse and Glaswegian spring to mind here.
I liked the shot of the Alkmaar cheese market I mentioned earlier in the YT clip, but I must say that one of the other shots looks suspiciously like the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin! Someone please enlighten me here....is it that building shown really in the Netherlands?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x8nUlrMyr0&NR=1
I liked the shot of the Alkmaar cheese market I mentioned earlier in the YT clip, but I must say that one of the other shots looks suspiciously like the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin! Someone please enlighten me here....is it that building shown really in the Netherlands?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x8nUlrMyr0&NR=1
<<You just want to continue to hate muslim world and you interpret things just like you want,>>
It's not Islam that I object to, it's the zealots or extremists among them. I'd think that even "ordinary" Muslims would get tired ot the actions of the extremists (Taliban, in this case):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8084851.stm .
Troublesome zealots aren't confined to Islam. Back when Christianity was at it's peak, we had witch trials, inquisitions, etc. Of course, it's not Politically Incorrect to object to killing an abortion doctor, or the bombing of an abortion clinic, but somehow when we object to beheading girls at a christian school or blowing up a bus, we're Islamophobes,in violation of Political Correctness.
It's not Islam that I object to, it's the zealots or extremists among them. I'd think that even "ordinary" Muslims would get tired ot the actions of the extremists (Taliban, in this case):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8084851.stm .
Troublesome zealots aren't confined to Islam. Back when Christianity was at it's peak, we had witch trials, inquisitions, etc. Of course, it's not Politically Incorrect to object to killing an abortion doctor, or the bombing of an abortion clinic, but somehow when we object to beheading girls at a christian school or blowing up a bus, we're Islamophobes,in violation of Political Correctness.
<<I like the Dutch landscape, flat as a pancake as it is>>
It's nice to visit there for a short while, but I'm partial to mountains, myself.
When I was working in Uithoorn decades ago, I used to look out over a lawn that was flat as a pool table. (There are flat lawns around here, but never *that* flat, it seems.) The place was about a dozen feet below sea level, so the lawn must have been reclaimed from the sea bottom. It was interesting to guess where natural sea level was -- probably up over my head as I was sitting in my 1st floor office.
[On topic addition: the Dutch language always seemed harsher to me than English.]
It's nice to visit there for a short while, but I'm partial to mountains, myself.
When I was working in Uithoorn decades ago, I used to look out over a lawn that was flat as a pool table. (There are flat lawns around here, but never *that* flat, it seems.) The place was about a dozen feet below sea level, so the lawn must have been reclaimed from the sea bottom. It was interesting to guess where natural sea level was -- probably up over my head as I was sitting in my 1st floor office.
[On topic addition: the Dutch language always seemed harsher to me than English.]
<<Since being founded, the US has always had a strong fascist streak - anything and anyone that deviates from the white Anglo-Saxon protestant ideal has been ostracised, criminalised and assasulted: African slaves, Jewish immigrants, socialists, liberals, Muslims, immigrants from Latin America etc. The state has always been seen as supreme, and to even countenance criticism of the status quo is seen as 'unAmerican', the US is seen as the natural, God-endowed supreme power, who has no need and no obligation to listen to anybody, and Americans (that is, white, Anglo-Saxon, protestant Americans) are the supermen. Anyone else is Untermensch scum who want to destroy America and who 'hate freedom'.>>
For one, this is a bit over done. If you know your history, you will recall that those poor Jewish immigrants were fleeing Europe for America long before the holocaust (and I wont debate if the holocaust occured). Secondly, the assertion that only Anglo-Saxons were accepted in the early United States is a false one too. At the inception of the United States, there were almost as many continental Europeans as there were Anglo-Saxons in the colonies. Also, there is no way that the U.S. could have had a strong fascist streak. You need to work on your terminology and examine your definitions. There was not such a thing as fascism at that time in history. Another problem, dissent has long been held as one of the primary forms of patriotism in the United States.
Take this Quote from President Eisenhower for example: “May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion”
or this one from Edward R. Murrow" “We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it.”
If you examine American Literature and philosophy, you will see that dissent is one of the key components utilized to establish the American form. Such things occurred very early in American history. "The Scarlet Letter" challenges the norms of strict religious authority as does "Moby Dick". "The Last of The Mohicans" challenges the assumptions of savagery and hegemony over Native American tribes. "Uncle Tom's Cabin", "The Adventure's of Huckleberry Fin", and "Benito Cerino" all heavily criticize slavery. Walt Whitman's poetry addresses time and time again almost everyone of the these issues you mentioned with a critical eye.
Indeed, the reform period in the early nineteenth-century was a very strong movement that's aim was to address these discordant issues head on. The founding father's of America were keenly aware of these issues when the Constitution and Declaration of Independence were written. Indeed, issues surrounding slavery were heavily debated at the Continental Congress. Eventually, in order to break away from England--their primary task at the time--they had to drop the issue.
It seems very odd. Most people who are so eager to condemn the United States for these atrocities seem to forget where they learned them from. . . the American media. In films, books, plays, etc. And then claim that American's are unable to criticize themselves or their government openly. I am afraid you are very mistaken about this. Whether we realize it or not, criticizing ourselves is our favorite national past time. And it has been for generations. I have yet too see any foreigner be able to criticize the United States with the ability that its own citizens posses and, as you so aptly demonstrated, with the level of real knowledge about what they are talking about.
It is very funny that you should so obviously look back to the right wing propaganda of the Bush Administration as an example of these things ("Anyone else is Untermensch scum who want to destroy America and who 'hate freedom'"). When it was the American citizens who first brought this incongruity to light and rebelled against it.
The question that you should be asking yourself is not whether this or that country was oppressive to one group or another. I have yet to hear of a country or nation who hasn't done such a thing at some point or another. Most are still doing it today with great vehemence. What you should be asking yourself, with your rather hate filled rhetoric, is how you yourself are part and parcel of that active, oppressive behavior.
For one, this is a bit over done. If you know your history, you will recall that those poor Jewish immigrants were fleeing Europe for America long before the holocaust (and I wont debate if the holocaust occured). Secondly, the assertion that only Anglo-Saxons were accepted in the early United States is a false one too. At the inception of the United States, there were almost as many continental Europeans as there were Anglo-Saxons in the colonies. Also, there is no way that the U.S. could have had a strong fascist streak. You need to work on your terminology and examine your definitions. There was not such a thing as fascism at that time in history. Another problem, dissent has long been held as one of the primary forms of patriotism in the United States.
Take this Quote from President Eisenhower for example: “May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion”
or this one from Edward R. Murrow" “We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it.”
If you examine American Literature and philosophy, you will see that dissent is one of the key components utilized to establish the American form. Such things occurred very early in American history. "The Scarlet Letter" challenges the norms of strict religious authority as does "Moby Dick". "The Last of The Mohicans" challenges the assumptions of savagery and hegemony over Native American tribes. "Uncle Tom's Cabin", "The Adventure's of Huckleberry Fin", and "Benito Cerino" all heavily criticize slavery. Walt Whitman's poetry addresses time and time again almost everyone of the these issues you mentioned with a critical eye.
Indeed, the reform period in the early nineteenth-century was a very strong movement that's aim was to address these discordant issues head on. The founding father's of America were keenly aware of these issues when the Constitution and Declaration of Independence were written. Indeed, issues surrounding slavery were heavily debated at the Continental Congress. Eventually, in order to break away from England--their primary task at the time--they had to drop the issue.
It seems very odd. Most people who are so eager to condemn the United States for these atrocities seem to forget where they learned them from. . . the American media. In films, books, plays, etc. And then claim that American's are unable to criticize themselves or their government openly. I am afraid you are very mistaken about this. Whether we realize it or not, criticizing ourselves is our favorite national past time. And it has been for generations. I have yet too see any foreigner be able to criticize the United States with the ability that its own citizens posses and, as you so aptly demonstrated, with the level of real knowledge about what they are talking about.
It is very funny that you should so obviously look back to the right wing propaganda of the Bush Administration as an example of these things ("Anyone else is Untermensch scum who want to destroy America and who 'hate freedom'"). When it was the American citizens who first brought this incongruity to light and rebelled against it.
The question that you should be asking yourself is not whether this or that country was oppressive to one group or another. I have yet to hear of a country or nation who hasn't done such a thing at some point or another. Most are still doing it today with great vehemence. What you should be asking yourself, with your rather hate filled rhetoric, is how you yourself are part and parcel of that active, oppressive behavior.