Why do Dutch and Scandinavians speak English so well?

It's true that Germans (in general) have never spoken English to the same level as their linguistic cousins in Scandanavia and Holland but there are very strong demographic, economic and political reasons for this.

But I do feel that many British people approach a visit to Germany with the attitude "oh, they all speak English" which most certainly isn't the case, particularly in the east, where monoglots are the norm.

I've never really understood the accent issue. I speak German with a Scots accent and have never tried to hide this. It doesn't offend my ears if a Frenchman speaks to me in heavily-accented English. Understanding him is the only thing that matters in my book. It just takes a tiny amount of effort to "tune in"

I think English has become a lingua franca for Germanic speaking peoples, like it's one of their own so are the most eager to learn it. It's almost like a complusory second language for them. There might be cultural resistance in other countries.

<<I think English has become a lingua franca for Germanic speaking peoples, like it's one of their own so are the most eager to learn it. It's almost like a complusory second language for them. There might be cultural resistance in other countries. >>

kinda like a crown-jewel in the Germanic bay?

If that's how you wish to put it.

«Paul Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:25 pm GMT
<<Some people have claimed that most German people speak good English >>

The English of Germans/Austrians has never been particularly good nor has it had that reputation.

Amongst the people in the germanic linguistic family, they speak the worst english, and have the thickest accents... »

The main reason is dubbing movies. Where in the Netherlands and Scandinavia movies are subtitled, the movies in Germany are dubbed. I think if they'd subtitle the movies, a lot of Germans would speak English a lot better.

meh, i don't think movies have that much to do with it... i mean a lot of people don't even watch that many movies... and most people arent going to tread watching a movie as a classroom session... plus, most movies teach bad english, and while it might improve their listening skills it's unlikely to improve anything else...

>I think the Finnish have a big plus at their language being phonetic when >it comes to reading?

Well, how exactly?

«a big plus Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:58 am GMT
>I think the Finnish have a big plus at their language being phonetic when >it comes to reading?

Well, how exactly? »
Because their language is phonetically written, they can say everything the way they see it. While in English you have to think before you say the sentence because the words aren't written like they're spoken.

«wretched Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:24 am GMT
meh, i don't think movies have that much to do with it... i mean a lot of people don't even watch that many movies... and most people arent going to tread watching a movie as a classroom session... plus, most movies teach bad english, and while it might improve their listening skills it's unlikely to improve anything else... »

Well watching the news on television then?
When Obama is speaking, some German person will speak German for Obama. While here we still have subtitles. And maybe movies teach you bad English, but that type of English, is the way it's usually used in the USA, or at least Cali or so. And you still learn how to pronounce.
Maybe people aren't treating movies like a classroom session, but it's surely a way to use what you listen. While in classrooms oftenly the teacher speaks bad English as well, so there's no difference with a movie.
Oftenly teachers have a terrible accent, except when they're a native English speaker.

The worst hurdle learners of English have to overcome are the irregularities and inconsistencies of the Language - not only in the pronunciation of words but also the vagaries of many grammatical formations such as plural forms and the like....mouse/mice, house/houses, ox/oxen and various other pitfalls of this kind.

Compared with many other Languages, English is quite easy if you overlook what I state above - it has nothing like the very complicated grammar of such Languages as German, for instance, with all its case formations. We English speakers have it quite easy in this respect as we don't have to worry about whether a book or a house or a salmon is feminine, masculine or neuter, but of course the Germans just adapt to all this as they grow up and autotmatically know which is which, just as we English speakers know how to pronounce words correctly without even thinking about it, whereas learners have to cope with getting it right in time.

This business has been discussed before in this Forum many times, and each time it is I think of the time I was in a train which had pulled into the station at Slough, on the West Country, South Wales, Bristol, Oxford, Reading to London Paddington line (Slough - the town where the TV comedy show "The Office" - with the inimitable Ricky Gervais was set).

I shared the carriage with, among others, a group of Germans who were loudly and hotly debating whether they were arriving at Sluff, Sloo, Slug, Sloog, Sloff - until they heard the voice over the train's comms system announce their arrival at Slah-oo - rhyming with "cow" - (the correct way!)

The English "-ough" combination of letters is about the ugliest looking in the Language in my opinion, and the one which probably causes the worst nightmare for non-native learners I would reckon.

That's exactly what I was trying to say on page 1.

To those people who think dubbing has nothing to do with this: Compare this map ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Knowledge_English_EU_map.png ) to the list of non-dubbing countries that's been posted at the end of page 1.

The percentage of English speakers is higher in the Balkans, the Baltic region and Portugal than it is in Italy or Spain although Italy's and Spain's education is probably better.
In Italy and Spain, movies are usually dubbed. The other countries mentioned prefer subtitles.

My post refers to 12345's.

In many small countries, your career prospects can be limited if you don't have a grasp of English or perhaps a neighbouring major European language.

Countries like Spain, Germany and Italy are so much larger and you have a greater opportunity to do well for yourself by sticking to your native tongue.

"While in English you have to think before you say the sentence because the words aren't written like they're spoken."

But is that a problem to native speakers of English? In the PISA thing they get the material in their own language.

Hmm, I don't see how subtitling movies makes any difference at all. In the Anglosphere, foreign films are usually subtitled. I don't think I've ever seen a dubbed movie. I've watch loads of French films, but I just ignore what they are saying and read the subtitles. Causually watching French films certainly doesn't help me with learning French. The only way that it would help me is if I didn't read the subtitles, and tried to puzzle out what they were saying.