Spice,
Troll=fee?
I didn't pay a penny to access this forum ?????
Troll=fee?
I didn't pay a penny to access this forum ?????
which accent do you prefer British or American?
excuse me i'd like to know what does "aim" mean? thanks in advance
and thank you so much for your messages! very nice of you!
and thank you so much for your messages! very nice of you!
Aim means several related things:
To point something at a target (usually a weapon)"
"I aimed the gun at the biggest bottle and shattered it with one shot."
To intend to do something (similar to "pointing" your efforts at a specific goal or target):
"I aim to get this house cleaned by dinner-time."
Or the noun version, which means "intention":
"My aims are to get rich, quit my job, and lie around on the beach all day while good-looking men feed me grapes."
To point something at a target (usually a weapon)"
"I aimed the gun at the biggest bottle and shattered it with one shot."
To intend to do something (similar to "pointing" your efforts at a specific goal or target):
"I aim to get this house cleaned by dinner-time."
Or the noun version, which means "intention":
"My aims are to get rich, quit my job, and lie around on the beach all day while good-looking men feed me grapes."
<<a team of psychologists even found in their tests that American police officers were more likely to let a traffic violator with a British accent off with just a warning than one with an American accent.>>
THAT IS PURE, UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT! As a speaker who has perfect command of both GAE and RP (how this came to be is a very long story and completely irrelevant to the current thread which is not titled "The story of Abednego's life and his mixed parentage").
I go out of my way to sound even more American on those extremely rare occasions when I actually have gotten pulled over by a police officers in the US. Most police officers would interpret an RP accent as being "uppity" and "snubbing" and thus be MORE likely to write you a ticket. We all know that cops are more likely to write tickets to drivers with out of state plates than to those with in-state plates and the stereotype of the redneck southern sheriff closely following a car with Yankee plates and stopping it on the most trifling of pretences, while being a just a stereotype, DOES actually have a pinch of truth to it.
It merely takes being out of state to be more likely to be issued a ticket, let alone being from another country. Incidentally, not all those with "British" accents are from Britain (although most of them are) but that is what people always assume.
I never use RP in ANY conversation or transaction involving a blue-collar worker since I would be perceived as a twit (this is even true in Britain although there I use RP because it's the only "British" I know). When it comes to cops and auto mechanics, you have to speak to them in their native accent or something close to it to avoid being screwed over (although even that does not guarantee not being screwed over).
Besides, I wonder how many drivers there are in the US with British accents?
Incidentally, in my previous post, I was merely expressing my personal opinions and tastes with regard to accents of English. I was not trying to imply that people who speak with accent A are necessarily superior to those who speak with accent B. The post was simply expressing what I happen to find most aesthetically pleasing from a personal standpoint and not necessarily that which is "best" by any existential criteria. Thus, if you think accent B sounds better than accent A then I respect your opinion as long as you are not criticising me for having my opinion (namely that accent A sounds better than accent B).
THAT IS PURE, UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT! As a speaker who has perfect command of both GAE and RP (how this came to be is a very long story and completely irrelevant to the current thread which is not titled "The story of Abednego's life and his mixed parentage").
I go out of my way to sound even more American on those extremely rare occasions when I actually have gotten pulled over by a police officers in the US. Most police officers would interpret an RP accent as being "uppity" and "snubbing" and thus be MORE likely to write you a ticket. We all know that cops are more likely to write tickets to drivers with out of state plates than to those with in-state plates and the stereotype of the redneck southern sheriff closely following a car with Yankee plates and stopping it on the most trifling of pretences, while being a just a stereotype, DOES actually have a pinch of truth to it.
It merely takes being out of state to be more likely to be issued a ticket, let alone being from another country. Incidentally, not all those with "British" accents are from Britain (although most of them are) but that is what people always assume.
I never use RP in ANY conversation or transaction involving a blue-collar worker since I would be perceived as a twit (this is even true in Britain although there I use RP because it's the only "British" I know). When it comes to cops and auto mechanics, you have to speak to them in their native accent or something close to it to avoid being screwed over (although even that does not guarantee not being screwed over).
Besides, I wonder how many drivers there are in the US with British accents?
Incidentally, in my previous post, I was merely expressing my personal opinions and tastes with regard to accents of English. I was not trying to imply that people who speak with accent A are necessarily superior to those who speak with accent B. The post was simply expressing what I happen to find most aesthetically pleasing from a personal standpoint and not necessarily that which is "best" by any existential criteria. Thus, if you think accent B sounds better than accent A then I respect your opinion as long as you are not criticising me for having my opinion (namely that accent A sounds better than accent B).
<<We all know that cops are more likely to write tickets to drivers with out of state plates than to those with in-state plates and the stereotype of the redneck southern sheriff closely following a car with Yankee plates and stopping it on the most trifling of pretences, while being a just a stereotype, DOES actually have a pinch of truth to it. >>
That's the DAMN truth, Abednego! Years ago I got pulled over in Alska for having California plates. The cop's reason? "Well, I've seen your car around for a while -- you know, if you stay here more than 30 days you have to register with the Alaska DMV."
Yeah, buddy, I'll get right on that.... Sheesh! Like I was planning to STAY...it was a frickin' camping trip!
That's the DAMN truth, Abednego! Years ago I got pulled over in Alska for having California plates. The cop's reason? "Well, I've seen your car around for a while -- you know, if you stay here more than 30 days you have to register with the Alaska DMV."
Yeah, buddy, I'll get right on that.... Sheesh! Like I was planning to STAY...it was a frickin' camping trip!
Uriel, you are absolutely, right. I'm sure that the psychological study that Brennus was referring to was performed in some rich, jet-set county in California. (It was certainly not in New Jersey or South Carolina).
Kirk, with regard to your remark: "There is no such thing as "sub-standard" if we're referring to native speakers of any language."
I do agree that CERTAIN pronunciations (such as the pin-pen merger in Southern US English or the pronunciation of "little" as "lito" in popular London speech) may simply reflect regional variations and are not necessarily "sub-standard" as such.
However, some Americans pronounce the word mother as "mudda". Should we consider that particular pronunciation standard just because the speaker is a native speaker of English??? What about the rough Cockney pronunciation of "li?o" or the even rougher "lio" for "little"? (? represents a glottal stop). Should THAT be considered standard?
While I agree with you that certain pronunciations merely reflect regional variation, I think we need to draw the line SOMEWHERE when it comes to standard and non-standard pronunciations. Surely, you're not suggesting that there are no native speakers of English who use sub-standard pronunciations for certain words? Surely, you wouldn't classify Andrew Dice Clay's accent (toity-toid and toid for 33rd and third) as standard??? What about Miss Brahmn's accent on "Are you being served"? The accents on that show range from RP to popular London to the roughest Cockney.
However, all that aside, let's get back to my first and foremost question. Should "mudda" NOT be considered sub-standard simply because the speaker happens to be a native speaker of English? If you were an employer hiring someone (other than a manual worker, a domestic helper, a comical character in a show or movie, etc...) would you hire someone who says "mudda"? (especially if the job required good communication skills and not just content knowledge of a certain discipline). Would you want someone who used "mudda" for "mother" to represent a Fortune 500 comapny?
Kirk, with regard to your remark: "There is no such thing as "sub-standard" if we're referring to native speakers of any language."
I do agree that CERTAIN pronunciations (such as the pin-pen merger in Southern US English or the pronunciation of "little" as "lito" in popular London speech) may simply reflect regional variations and are not necessarily "sub-standard" as such.
However, some Americans pronounce the word mother as "mudda". Should we consider that particular pronunciation standard just because the speaker is a native speaker of English??? What about the rough Cockney pronunciation of "li?o" or the even rougher "lio" for "little"? (? represents a glottal stop). Should THAT be considered standard?
While I agree with you that certain pronunciations merely reflect regional variation, I think we need to draw the line SOMEWHERE when it comes to standard and non-standard pronunciations. Surely, you're not suggesting that there are no native speakers of English who use sub-standard pronunciations for certain words? Surely, you wouldn't classify Andrew Dice Clay's accent (toity-toid and toid for 33rd and third) as standard??? What about Miss Brahmn's accent on "Are you being served"? The accents on that show range from RP to popular London to the roughest Cockney.
However, all that aside, let's get back to my first and foremost question. Should "mudda" NOT be considered sub-standard simply because the speaker happens to be a native speaker of English? If you were an employer hiring someone (other than a manual worker, a domestic helper, a comical character in a show or movie, etc...) would you hire someone who says "mudda"? (especially if the job required good communication skills and not just content knowledge of a certain discipline). Would you want someone who used "mudda" for "mother" to represent a Fortune 500 comapny?
<<Would you want someone who used "mudda" for "mother" to represent a Fortune 500 comapny?>>
I certainly wouldn't.
I certainly wouldn't.
***American police officers were more likely to let a traffic violator with a British accent off with just a warning than one with an American accent****
Can that really be true? Sadly it would not work in reverse and that's for sure. I will hazard a guess as to why a US cop would let off a British traffic violator....it would not be so much to do with the "charm effect" of our British accents - more to do with the probable hassle of booking foreign nationals which would result in complications in administration.
Most Americans will only have one impression of the "British accent" - the general RP type from films, TV and the BBC or whatever. From that bloody Hugh Grant bloke, and all the rest of the British accent establishment, as well as Tony Blur (sorry...I meant Blair) and of course, dear auld Lizzie. btw...talking about films, go and see "Mrs Henderson Presents" when it comes round your way...it's already been released in the UK. Some nice Cockney accents modelled on those during the WW2 blitz on London, which is the setting of the film.
Mrs Henderson is played by Judi Dench, and it's all about the Windmill Theatre, close to Piccadilly Circus in London's West End.
Mrs Henderson finances the theatre with Van Damm and keeps it running continuous revues throughout all the bombing raids on London in WW2. Nobody took to the shelters (performers or audience) during air raids and just carried on with the show. The chorus girls posed in the nude on stage and the performances of music and dance and comedy continued even when bombs landed in the streets all around the theatre....they just took the chance against a direct hit by high explosive bombs. It was known as the theatre with the slogan: "We never Closed" but because of the dancing girls posing in the nude on stage it was more popularly known as the "We Never Clothed".
I went to see the film because mainly because it's the first film starring pop idol Will Young..he's had great reviews. He speaks a really nice Berkshire type RP....
Can that really be true? Sadly it would not work in reverse and that's for sure. I will hazard a guess as to why a US cop would let off a British traffic violator....it would not be so much to do with the "charm effect" of our British accents - more to do with the probable hassle of booking foreign nationals which would result in complications in administration.
Most Americans will only have one impression of the "British accent" - the general RP type from films, TV and the BBC or whatever. From that bloody Hugh Grant bloke, and all the rest of the British accent establishment, as well as Tony Blur (sorry...I meant Blair) and of course, dear auld Lizzie. btw...talking about films, go and see "Mrs Henderson Presents" when it comes round your way...it's already been released in the UK. Some nice Cockney accents modelled on those during the WW2 blitz on London, which is the setting of the film.
Mrs Henderson is played by Judi Dench, and it's all about the Windmill Theatre, close to Piccadilly Circus in London's West End.
Mrs Henderson finances the theatre with Van Damm and keeps it running continuous revues throughout all the bombing raids on London in WW2. Nobody took to the shelters (performers or audience) during air raids and just carried on with the show. The chorus girls posed in the nude on stage and the performances of music and dance and comedy continued even when bombs landed in the streets all around the theatre....they just took the chance against a direct hit by high explosive bombs. It was known as the theatre with the slogan: "We never Closed" but because of the dancing girls posing in the nude on stage it was more popularly known as the "We Never Clothed".
I went to see the film because mainly because it's the first film starring pop idol Will Young..he's had great reviews. He speaks a really nice Berkshire type RP....
<<We all know that cops are more likely to write tickets to drivers with out of state plates than to those with in-state plates and the stereotype of the redneck southern sheriff closely following a car with Yankee plates and stopping it on the most trifling of pretences, while being a just a stereotype, DOES actually have a pinch of truth to it. >>
I see that happen all the time while driving in the south. But also locals tend to know where the speed traps are. Cops are rather predictable about that sort of thing. The accent problem never occurred to me but it makes sense. As far as car mechanics go they rip you off no matter what your accent.
<That's the DAMN truth, Abednego! Years ago I got pulled over in Alska for having California plates. The cop's reason? "Well, I've seen your car around for a while -- you know, if you stay here more than 30 days you have to register with the Alaska DMV."
Yeah, buddy, I'll get right on that.... Sheesh! Like I was planning to STAY...it was a frickin' camping trip! >>
LOL. That is weird. The best thing to do when you're stopped by a US cop is to act very, very respectful, humble and apologetic. Respect is very important to them so they might let you slide. Flirting often gets you off but you have to judge the situation and proceed slowly and don't overdo. I never get speeding tickets and I have a lead foot. Knock wood.
I see that happen all the time while driving in the south. But also locals tend to know where the speed traps are. Cops are rather predictable about that sort of thing. The accent problem never occurred to me but it makes sense. As far as car mechanics go they rip you off no matter what your accent.
<That's the DAMN truth, Abednego! Years ago I got pulled over in Alska for having California plates. The cop's reason? "Well, I've seen your car around for a while -- you know, if you stay here more than 30 days you have to register with the Alaska DMV."
Yeah, buddy, I'll get right on that.... Sheesh! Like I was planning to STAY...it was a frickin' camping trip! >>
LOL. That is weird. The best thing to do when you're stopped by a US cop is to act very, very respectful, humble and apologetic. Respect is very important to them so they might let you slide. Flirting often gets you off but you have to judge the situation and proceed slowly and don't overdo. I never get speeding tickets and I have a lead foot. Knock wood.
<<Uriel, you are absolutely, right. I'm sure that the psychological study that Brennus was referring to was performed in some rich, jet-set county in California. (It was certainly not in New Jersey or South Carolina).>>
I personally prefer to think it was performed and published in Brennus' La-la land which also happens to produce other such nonsense he's mentioned in the past ;)
<<Kirk, with regard to your remark: "There is no such thing as "sub-standard" if we're referring to native speakers of any language."
I do agree that CERTAIN pronunciations (such as the pin-pen merger in Southern US English or the pronunciation of "little" as "lito" in popular London speech) may simply reflect regional variations and are not necessarily "sub-standard" as such.
However, some Americans pronounce the word mother as "mudda". Should we consider that particular pronunciation standard just because the speaker is a native speaker of English???>>
I never said anything about considering such pronunciations "standard" (also, General American is pretty hazily defined altho ["mV4@] would certainly not fit under its umbrella).
However, you said "substandard," not "non-standard." It may sound like picky terminology but "substandard" implies a certain lack of ability which really can't be applied to native speakers of any language. Even the staunchest and dyed-in-the-wool prescriptivists don't use the word "substandard" these days.
<<While I agree with you that certain pronunciations merely reflect regional variation, I think we need to draw the line SOMEWHERE when it comes to standard and non-standard pronunciations. Surely, you're not suggesting that there are no native speakers of English who use sub-standard pronunciations for certain words? Surely, you wouldn't classify Andrew Dice Clay's accent (toity-toid and toid for 33rd and third) as standard???>>
Actually, that'd be more like [3I] instead of [OI], which you imply with "toity toid." About your statements on standard pronunciations in this section, refer to my other comments.
<<However, all that aside, let's get back to my first and foremost question. Should "mudda" NOT be considered sub-standard simply because the speaker happens to be a native speaker of English? If you were an employer hiring someone (other than a manual worker, a domestic helper, a comical character in a show or movie, etc...) would you hire someone who says "mudda"? (especially if the job required good communication skills and not just content knowledge of a certain discipline). Would you want someone who used "mudda" for "mother" to represent a Fortune 500 comapny?>>
Ah, so we're into the realm of sociolinguistics now :) As I said before, I acknowledge sociolinguistic reality but reject the notion that native speakers of a language can be said to be speaking "substandard" varieties of their language (as if they were making "mistakes" by somehow not conforming to formal written and spoken norms, or even informal spoken norms of another variety).
I personally prefer to think it was performed and published in Brennus' La-la land which also happens to produce other such nonsense he's mentioned in the past ;)
<<Kirk, with regard to your remark: "There is no such thing as "sub-standard" if we're referring to native speakers of any language."
I do agree that CERTAIN pronunciations (such as the pin-pen merger in Southern US English or the pronunciation of "little" as "lito" in popular London speech) may simply reflect regional variations and are not necessarily "sub-standard" as such.
However, some Americans pronounce the word mother as "mudda". Should we consider that particular pronunciation standard just because the speaker is a native speaker of English???>>
I never said anything about considering such pronunciations "standard" (also, General American is pretty hazily defined altho ["mV4@] would certainly not fit under its umbrella).
However, you said "substandard," not "non-standard." It may sound like picky terminology but "substandard" implies a certain lack of ability which really can't be applied to native speakers of any language. Even the staunchest and dyed-in-the-wool prescriptivists don't use the word "substandard" these days.
<<While I agree with you that certain pronunciations merely reflect regional variation, I think we need to draw the line SOMEWHERE when it comes to standard and non-standard pronunciations. Surely, you're not suggesting that there are no native speakers of English who use sub-standard pronunciations for certain words? Surely, you wouldn't classify Andrew Dice Clay's accent (toity-toid and toid for 33rd and third) as standard???>>
Actually, that'd be more like [3I] instead of [OI], which you imply with "toity toid." About your statements on standard pronunciations in this section, refer to my other comments.
<<However, all that aside, let's get back to my first and foremost question. Should "mudda" NOT be considered sub-standard simply because the speaker happens to be a native speaker of English? If you were an employer hiring someone (other than a manual worker, a domestic helper, a comical character in a show or movie, etc...) would you hire someone who says "mudda"? (especially if the job required good communication skills and not just content knowledge of a certain discipline). Would you want someone who used "mudda" for "mother" to represent a Fortune 500 comapny?>>
Ah, so we're into the realm of sociolinguistics now :) As I said before, I acknowledge sociolinguistic reality but reject the notion that native speakers of a language can be said to be speaking "substandard" varieties of their language (as if they were making "mistakes" by somehow not conforming to formal written and spoken norms, or even informal spoken norms of another variety).
Some people prefers British accents, but there's something I quite don't understand. Why non-native speakers using a British English course end up speaking with a Yankee accent?
No idea. Perhaps they were sneaking off to an American course on the side...cheaters!
>>However, some Americans pronounce the word mother as "mudda". Should we consider that particular pronunciation standard just because the speaker is a native speaker of English???>>
I never said anything about considering such pronunciations "standard" (also, General American is pretty hazily defined altho ["mV4@] would certainly not fit under its umbrella).<<
I would somewhat doubt that such would likely actually be ["mV4@], as the "dd" here is probably not corresponding to historical /d/ but rather some stopped version of historical /D/, which very well may still not correspond to /d/ proper (for example, if it is not /D/ per se, it may be /d_d/ or like). And even then it is likely that it is still in alternation with [D] over some range of registers, and likely may be in some degree of free variation with such.
I never said anything about considering such pronunciations "standard" (also, General American is pretty hazily defined altho ["mV4@] would certainly not fit under its umbrella).<<
I would somewhat doubt that such would likely actually be ["mV4@], as the "dd" here is probably not corresponding to historical /d/ but rather some stopped version of historical /D/, which very well may still not correspond to /d/ proper (for example, if it is not /D/ per se, it may be /d_d/ or like). And even then it is likely that it is still in alternation with [D] over some range of registers, and likely may be in some degree of free variation with such.