Whether someone likes or doesn't like the country in which they have chosen to live, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with culture. I lived in Arizona for 4 years, and constantly whined about the miserable sun. I didn't mind the Arizona culture in the least, but simply couldn't stasnd the horrid weather. Moving back to San Francisco was utter paradise, by contrast
Anglosphere
I would imagine that Germans actually have an easier time living in the UK rather than North America, since they're both European countries.
<<The UK and NZ are very, very different countries. NZ is a multi-cultural country with influences from all over the world, so it can no longer be said that it primarily British, so it's no wonder that Brits cannot adapt to it. Britain, on the other hand, has not changed at all in the last thousand years, except in the last 25 years. NZ is much more influenced by Portugal. Portuguese people have no trouble what-so-ever adapting to life in NZ. Come to think of it, they have no trouble adapting to life in the UK either. >>
What are you talking about? I was recently in London and there are a lot of immigrants there, no less than here. The UK and NZ are not exactly the same of course, but out of all the countries in the world that a Brit could move to, NZ would rank as one of the most similar. If a Brit can't adapt to NZ, he will not adapt anywhere.
And I have never met a Portuguese person ever, only a couple of Brazilians, and they were just exchange students, too drunk to worry about questions of adapting.
What are you talking about? I was recently in London and there are a lot of immigrants there, no less than here. The UK and NZ are not exactly the same of course, but out of all the countries in the world that a Brit could move to, NZ would rank as one of the most similar. If a Brit can't adapt to NZ, he will not adapt anywhere.
And I have never met a Portuguese person ever, only a couple of Brazilians, and they were just exchange students, too drunk to worry about questions of adapting.
NUMBERS: "Whether someone likes or doesn't like the country in which they have chosen to live, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with culture."
Where I am going with this line of reasoning is this: if an immigrant from country X has a lot more to complain about than an immigrant from country Y, there is probably a greater cultural shock in the heart of the former...which leads us to the inevitable conclusion that the cultures are less similar.
Please keep in mind that this was only one point that I posited in my previous post...
Where I am going with this line of reasoning is this: if an immigrant from country X has a lot more to complain about than an immigrant from country Y, there is probably a greater cultural shock in the heart of the former...which leads us to the inevitable conclusion that the cultures are less similar.
Please keep in mind that this was only one point that I posited in my previous post...
It depends on what they're complaing about. Some people would compain if they moved to a different state and couldn't get the same brand of dental floss. I really don't see how Germany is the most similar to the US. I actually think that Scandinavia seems more similar to the US, but not more so than Britain.
<<I actually think that Scandinavia seems more similar to the US, but not more so than Britain. >>
Wouldn't parts of Canada resemble the US even more? Compare Great Falls with Calgary, or Kamloops with Rapid City (an uncanny resemblance, at least on the surface).
Wouldn't parts of Canada resemble the US even more? Compare Great Falls with Calgary, or Kamloops with Rapid City (an uncanny resemblance, at least on the surface).
When I said the US, I meant Anglo-America (English speaking US and Canada)
One thing about this, honestly, is that it seems like a lot of British people seem to have a lot of expectations about the US, since the US is predominantly English-speaking, and then when they are disappointed by the fact that the US actually differs greatly from the UK. Conversely, many Germans seem to have a very positive view of the US in general, which may reflect not just cultural similarities between areas like the Upper Midwest and Germany but also simply the fact that the US was probably a better ally to West Germany during the Cold War than many of its European neighbors (and received many who fled what became East German), which likely reflects the "no hard feelings" attitude with respect to WW2 that has been largely the case here*, in contrast to much of the lingering bitterness about such held in much of Europe.
* seriously, as long as you weren't a Nazi** per se, having fought in the Wehrmacht or even having designed ballistic missiles for Nazi Germany is not seen as really all that bad here; you were just doing your duty for your country, as people here did for ours
** and by that we mean really a Nazi - simply having had membership in the National Socialist German Workers' Party is not all that bad as long as it was merely nominal membership required by one's position
* seriously, as long as you weren't a Nazi** per se, having fought in the Wehrmacht or even having designed ballistic missiles for Nazi Germany is not seen as really all that bad here; you were just doing your duty for your country, as people here did for ours
** and by that we mean really a Nazi - simply having had membership in the National Socialist German Workers' Party is not all that bad as long as it was merely nominal membership required by one's position
***in contrast to much of the lingering bitterness about such held in much of Europe***
***the US is the one place that Germans don't get beat over the head just for being German***
These are interesting and quite revealing extracts from the posts of two of our American friends in this Forum concerning general attitudes to Germany, now happily, very happily (we hope) one of Britain's fellow members of the 21st century European Union.
Thankfully WW2 is now a very long time ago and to my generation in particular (I was born almost 37 years after the end of that conflict) and that of the up and coming one now in the earlier stages of childhood who are not yet able to make any valid comment about all this at all, what happened all those years ago is now history on a level with the Battle of Waterloo and even the Spanish Armada or the Crusades.
The thing is this when we consider any residual European (including British) feelings of antagonism to our neighbours the Germans (perhaps bitterness no longer really applies to any great extent, because the war in question is now so very long ago, and time has moved on massively in Europe - and Britain) - the people of Europe (and Britain) experienced at first hand the full onslaught of German aggression - and over three successive generations in recent times, comparatively speaking - in the 1870s, and twice in the first part of the 20th century. The physical scars of all this can still be seen in many places over here to some degree.
Even in the pleasant area of south west London where I am currently living (Putney) you can see rows of houses and buildings which existed long before WW2 but at regular intervals all along the terraces and streets of conjoined habitats/busines premises there are either gaps now filled with nicely tended gardens or recreation areas, or else new buildings from the post war period. Now and again in those gaps in the multi storey rows of buildings you can see on the walls of adjoining premises the outlines of former doors and floorings of those buildings which were destroyd nearly 70 years ago now.
In the City of London, in particular (the name for the core of the original London now the heart of the financial, business and commercial centre most of the buildings are now gleamingly new and modern, towering skyscrapers in place of all the originals, including many architecural treasures such as churches and the original Guildhall, to name but one, which were laid flat in the Blitzes. Sure, the same thing happened over in Germany - but much later in the WW2 - and it was indeed the Germans themselves who initiated the full scale Blitzkrieg in the first place, first on the Continent and then on Britain's towns and cities.
The same thing happened in WW1 but to a much lesser extent, but even so those German Zeppelins laid waste to many parts of London and other areas of southern and eastern England during that conflict without any kind of similar action by the Brits beforehand, and those horrible reports circulating in this country at the time about the German "bayonetting of Belgian babies" (attractively alliterative but horrific in meaning) did eventually prove to be factual.
Paris was spared carpet bombing in WW2 reportedly on aesthetic grounds (well, it really IS a beautiful city, I can vouch for that) but even so it had to endure five long years of occupation, and a fair number of its citizens were subsequently consigned to the horrors of the concentration camps never to be heard of again). Two generations back from those times, in 1870, Paris was similary occupied by force - again by the Germans but then they called themselves Prussians, another instance of this fair city being ravaged.
Such conditions prevailed throughout German occupied Continental Europe in those now historic conflicts - involving three generations of Germans (or Prussians, call them what you will) so all in all Europe (including Britain) very much suffered at the hands of our present day allies and friends - the Germans.
You just can't eradicate history like you can a formula chalked up on a board - what happened happened, but as I said - Euiope (and Britain) - including Germany! - let's not forget that - including Germany! - is now a very, very different place. Everything for us now is different, and that is why I am a keen supporter of the European Union, binding us all, former allies as well as former enemies, in one single unit.
However, the Americans, isolated and insulated far away over there on the other side of a huge ocean, did indeed lose many thousands of its youth in what were firstly European wars after they had - late in both cases it has to be said and only after they had become involved by actual attack themselves in one of them - they never had to share the experience of the Europeans (including the British) of all out warfare on their own home ground, and everything that implied. That is why 9/11 was such a hoirrendous shock to their system - big time.
I did study the topic in great detail and wrote a thesis on social conditions in Britain during WW2 while at university. It's a period which fascinated me and still does, and comparisons with modern day Britain and Europe are pretty profoundly astonishing, in my opinion.
As Noel Coward sang during the London Blitz: Let's not be beastly to the Germans! As I said, all this was so long ago now....it's a different world. I just wanted to make a point.
***the US is the one place that Germans don't get beat over the head just for being German***
These are interesting and quite revealing extracts from the posts of two of our American friends in this Forum concerning general attitudes to Germany, now happily, very happily (we hope) one of Britain's fellow members of the 21st century European Union.
Thankfully WW2 is now a very long time ago and to my generation in particular (I was born almost 37 years after the end of that conflict) and that of the up and coming one now in the earlier stages of childhood who are not yet able to make any valid comment about all this at all, what happened all those years ago is now history on a level with the Battle of Waterloo and even the Spanish Armada or the Crusades.
The thing is this when we consider any residual European (including British) feelings of antagonism to our neighbours the Germans (perhaps bitterness no longer really applies to any great extent, because the war in question is now so very long ago, and time has moved on massively in Europe - and Britain) - the people of Europe (and Britain) experienced at first hand the full onslaught of German aggression - and over three successive generations in recent times, comparatively speaking - in the 1870s, and twice in the first part of the 20th century. The physical scars of all this can still be seen in many places over here to some degree.
Even in the pleasant area of south west London where I am currently living (Putney) you can see rows of houses and buildings which existed long before WW2 but at regular intervals all along the terraces and streets of conjoined habitats/busines premises there are either gaps now filled with nicely tended gardens or recreation areas, or else new buildings from the post war period. Now and again in those gaps in the multi storey rows of buildings you can see on the walls of adjoining premises the outlines of former doors and floorings of those buildings which were destroyd nearly 70 years ago now.
In the City of London, in particular (the name for the core of the original London now the heart of the financial, business and commercial centre most of the buildings are now gleamingly new and modern, towering skyscrapers in place of all the originals, including many architecural treasures such as churches and the original Guildhall, to name but one, which were laid flat in the Blitzes. Sure, the same thing happened over in Germany - but much later in the WW2 - and it was indeed the Germans themselves who initiated the full scale Blitzkrieg in the first place, first on the Continent and then on Britain's towns and cities.
The same thing happened in WW1 but to a much lesser extent, but even so those German Zeppelins laid waste to many parts of London and other areas of southern and eastern England during that conflict without any kind of similar action by the Brits beforehand, and those horrible reports circulating in this country at the time about the German "bayonetting of Belgian babies" (attractively alliterative but horrific in meaning) did eventually prove to be factual.
Paris was spared carpet bombing in WW2 reportedly on aesthetic grounds (well, it really IS a beautiful city, I can vouch for that) but even so it had to endure five long years of occupation, and a fair number of its citizens were subsequently consigned to the horrors of the concentration camps never to be heard of again). Two generations back from those times, in 1870, Paris was similary occupied by force - again by the Germans but then they called themselves Prussians, another instance of this fair city being ravaged.
Such conditions prevailed throughout German occupied Continental Europe in those now historic conflicts - involving three generations of Germans (or Prussians, call them what you will) so all in all Europe (including Britain) very much suffered at the hands of our present day allies and friends - the Germans.
You just can't eradicate history like you can a formula chalked up on a board - what happened happened, but as I said - Euiope (and Britain) - including Germany! - let's not forget that - including Germany! - is now a very, very different place. Everything for us now is different, and that is why I am a keen supporter of the European Union, binding us all, former allies as well as former enemies, in one single unit.
However, the Americans, isolated and insulated far away over there on the other side of a huge ocean, did indeed lose many thousands of its youth in what were firstly European wars after they had - late in both cases it has to be said and only after they had become involved by actual attack themselves in one of them - they never had to share the experience of the Europeans (including the British) of all out warfare on their own home ground, and everything that implied. That is why 9/11 was such a hoirrendous shock to their system - big time.
I did study the topic in great detail and wrote a thesis on social conditions in Britain during WW2 while at university. It's a period which fascinated me and still does, and comparisons with modern day Britain and Europe are pretty profoundly astonishing, in my opinion.
As Noel Coward sang during the London Blitz: Let's not be beastly to the Germans! As I said, all this was so long ago now....it's a different world. I just wanted to make a point.
Well, hopefully, relations have gotten better over the years between Germany and what are now its fellow members of the EU, of course - even though I hear that people are still somewhat bitter about the whole matter in places like the Netherlands to date... I was just saying that even shortly after WW2, relations between the US and Germany were patched up quite quickly with the onset of the Cold War, and unlike in much of the surrounding areas of Europe, there were few in the way of actual hard feelings with respect to WW2 here. The Cold War made us forget quickly that we really had fought a war against Germany in the first place. Likewise, those who had left Germany after the war were more than welcome here, particularly in places like here in the Upper Midwest. (Yes, the Nazis were the Bad Guys, but in most of our minds most of the Germans were not actual Nazis per se - and even the first part could be forgotten when convenient, even though a few of the Paperclip guys got sent back, or if already dead, posthumously discredited in later years when connections to the Holocaust were discovered.)
>> One thing about this, honestly, is that it seems like a lot of British people seem to have a lot of expectations about the US, since the US is predominantly English-speaking, and then when they are disappointed by the fact that the US actually differs greatly from the UK <<
Well, I agree that someone from the UK would have a lot more expectations about the US than someone from Germany would. Someone from Germany would be happy about any similarity, as they probably wouldn't be expecting all that much would be similar. Thus, moving to the US would be a pleasant surprise. Someone from the UK would instead notice every single little difference, and would be annoyed that they are only understood 99.9% of the time in the US, versus the 100% that they had wanted. Someone from Germany would just be happy to be understood at all. But it seems like Americans complain about just about everything when they travel to foreign countries, or even foreign cities. Indeed, I on my first time to Canada, I complained about how the Coca-Cola bottles were different, and annoyingly written in both English and French. I also whined that I couldn't understand someone when they mentioned the word "hydro". If I can complain about such trivial things, in a country that's about as similar as possible to my own country--indeed in a country that I am not even recognized as a foreigner, or even an out-of-towner, because my accent is almost indistinguishable from the local accent, then yes, if you set your expectations so high, then you have no business leaving your own block. Ever.
Well, I agree that someone from the UK would have a lot more expectations about the US than someone from Germany would. Someone from Germany would be happy about any similarity, as they probably wouldn't be expecting all that much would be similar. Thus, moving to the US would be a pleasant surprise. Someone from the UK would instead notice every single little difference, and would be annoyed that they are only understood 99.9% of the time in the US, versus the 100% that they had wanted. Someone from Germany would just be happy to be understood at all. But it seems like Americans complain about just about everything when they travel to foreign countries, or even foreign cities. Indeed, I on my first time to Canada, I complained about how the Coca-Cola bottles were different, and annoyingly written in both English and French. I also whined that I couldn't understand someone when they mentioned the word "hydro". If I can complain about such trivial things, in a country that's about as similar as possible to my own country--indeed in a country that I am not even recognized as a foreigner, or even an out-of-towner, because my accent is almost indistinguishable from the local accent, then yes, if you set your expectations so high, then you have no business leaving your own block. Ever.
<<Someone from the UK would instead notice every single little difference, and would be annoyed that they are only understood 99.9% of the time in the US, versus the 100% that they had wanted. Someone from Germany would just be happy to be understood at all>>
99.9%!!!!! you have high expectation. It's not because we share the same language, that we have the same cultures, History, lifestyle etc...
UK and USA are really two different countries. UK and Germany, or even Netherlands and France are pretty similar, unlike USA, Canada or NewZealand.
99.9%!!!!! you have high expectation. It's not because we share the same language, that we have the same cultures, History, lifestyle etc...
UK and USA are really two different countries. UK and Germany, or even Netherlands and France are pretty similar, unlike USA, Canada or NewZealand.
Honestly, the biggest difference between the UK and North America is the side of the road that you drive on. Everything else is fairly insignificant. If you truely think that there is so much of a difference between the UK and North America, I would recommend that you either visit both places first before saying another word on the subject, or checking in to a mental hospital. Preferably one in your own town.
"But it seems like Americans complain about just about everything when they travel to foreign countries, or even foreign cities. "
There seems to be a significant difference in attitude between English tourists and English immigrants. With this in mind, I HOPE that there's a significant difference between American tourists and American emigrants—the ugly American is a cliche even among us, Numbers.
There seems to be a significant difference in attitude between English tourists and English immigrants. With this in mind, I HOPE that there's a significant difference between American tourists and American emigrants—the ugly American is a cliche even among us, Numbers.