While I agree the US and the UK are not 'that' close, I think you don't really know what you're talking about with respect to Germany. It appears to me you are a bunch of Americans and Brits only basing your opinion of Germany on stereotypes. Have any of you lived for a long period (years) in Germany? Do any of you speak German? On what basis do you claim to know German culture better than British culture? I'm not saying you don't, but I would like to hear your justifications for this great cultural bond you claim to have with Germany.
Anglosphere
Why do you think that the US and the UK aren't that close? Nobody has even said that. Everyone agrees that the US and UK are very similar, but that other Western European countries are also very similar to the US.
Why not do this more objectively, and list the most salient differences between the US/Canada vs. the UK, and then rank how important the differences would seem to a tourist or resident in the other country.
<<It's enough for me, you don't know a country in 2 weeks, sorry. >>
I think that was my point, dipshit.
I think that was my point, dipshit.
Seriously, I think some of you are seeing what has been written here far too much in extreme terms - the matter is simply that American culture is no external culture transplanted, any British culture or hybrid thereof included. And the other part of this is that another major formative influence upon present-day American culture seems to have been German culture, and which likely introduced many elements of American culture not found within English, Scottish, or Irish culture. Secondarily, such elements seem to be the strongest in areas were German influence has been the strongest historically, such as the Upper Midwest, and conversely, weakest where German influence has been the weakest historically, such a New England. This is not to say by any means that even the culture in the Upper Midwest today is equivalent in any way to present-day German culture, which is not true by any means. Even there were strongly conserved elements of German culture present in parts of the US, they would still be more than a century separated from present-day German culture, and would not have been influenced by either world war in the first place.
So far no one has actually given a concrete example of German influence in the USA. Let's have a concrete example which is indisputably of German origin.
To put this in another way, consider the case of right here in Milwaukee. I grew up in a neighborhood where a majority of the families I knew in it had German last names, and in a family where German had been spoken amongst those of my great-grandparents' generation on my father's side and Polish had been spoken amongst those of my grandparents' generation on my mothers' side. For many white people here who did not recently come here from elsewhere in North America, that we originally came from continental Europe is still regarded quite self-consciously, while conversely the British Isles are often regarded as a place which just happens to speak English and which played an incidental role in the founding of the United States while having played practically no role right here at home.
Yet at the same time, for being in one of the parts of the US with the strongest continental European influence, any real conscious ties to Germany, Poland, or like are regarded by younger people as being extremely dated, unlike amongst older generations, even though we do have a tendency to see immigrants from either place, and in particularly Germany, differently from immigrants from elsewhere. German itself is commonly seen as having little use today, even though it is more popular in some other areas, and any real memory of Polish has been lost here in Milwaukee (even though it is apparently still actively spoken in parts of Chicago). Overall, younger people here practically see themselves as Wisconsinites first, Upper Midwesterners second, and Americans third, and do not overtly link themselves with any place outside of the US whatsoever. Any sort of lingering ethnic identity has been subsumed under being part of being a white Wisconsinite or Upper Midwesterner (minding that such requires actually having grown up here), with such being treated more as a matter of formative influences upon the local culture rather than a matter of individual ethnicity. Also, the local culture is seen as part of American culture which has happened to receive outside influence and not as any foreign culture transplanted. So hence I would say that younger people here do not identify with either British cultures or German culture more, but rather simply identify with no outside culture in the the first place from a present-day perspective, and this in one of the parts of the US with the strongest non-British influence in the first place.
Yet at the same time, for being in one of the parts of the US with the strongest continental European influence, any real conscious ties to Germany, Poland, or like are regarded by younger people as being extremely dated, unlike amongst older generations, even though we do have a tendency to see immigrants from either place, and in particularly Germany, differently from immigrants from elsewhere. German itself is commonly seen as having little use today, even though it is more popular in some other areas, and any real memory of Polish has been lost here in Milwaukee (even though it is apparently still actively spoken in parts of Chicago). Overall, younger people here practically see themselves as Wisconsinites first, Upper Midwesterners second, and Americans third, and do not overtly link themselves with any place outside of the US whatsoever. Any sort of lingering ethnic identity has been subsumed under being part of being a white Wisconsinite or Upper Midwesterner (minding that such requires actually having grown up here), with such being treated more as a matter of formative influences upon the local culture rather than a matter of individual ethnicity. Also, the local culture is seen as part of American culture which has happened to receive outside influence and not as any foreign culture transplanted. So hence I would say that younger people here do not identify with either British cultures or German culture more, but rather simply identify with no outside culture in the the first place from a present-day perspective, and this in one of the parts of the US with the strongest non-British influence in the first place.
What, do you want examples such as our drinking and eating habits, or our tendency to assume that strangers want to nothing to do with you unless given reason to think otherwise, or that politics here in Milwaukee historically had a now-lost Social Democratic bent largely absent from much of the US?
If you think that a trip to Germany is less exotic than a trip to the UK, then by all means, go to Germany, and skip the UK, in case you run into the nasty situation of not being understood when you try to order fruit juice. Better to go to Germany, where the culture is so much more similar to the US, because the people value things like privacy and efficiency.
________________________
I don't care, I speak german.
________________________
I don't care, I speak german.
>> Overall younger people here practically see themselves as Wisconsinites first, Upper Midwesterners second, and Americans third, and do not overtly link themselves with any place outside of the US whatsoever. <<
Interesting. At least for me, I see myself as a Pacific Northwesterner first, a Westerner second, a North American third (have to include Canada too, as the closest major city is there, and BC is much more similar to here than anywhere in the US), and an English-speaker fourth (rather than just of European-derived culture). But that last one is very important, which is a link to all the other native English-speaking countries. A fifth one would be of Germanic or Western European-derived culture (not technically "descent", I suppose, as both my parents were born in Taiwan, but that's not very important.)
Interesting. At least for me, I see myself as a Pacific Northwesterner first, a Westerner second, a North American third (have to include Canada too, as the closest major city is there, and BC is much more similar to here than anywhere in the US), and an English-speaker fourth (rather than just of European-derived culture). But that last one is very important, which is a link to all the other native English-speaking countries. A fifth one would be of Germanic or Western European-derived culture (not technically "descent", I suppose, as both my parents were born in Taiwan, but that's not very important.)
Well, we all seem to agree that the US strongly resembles various parts of Germanic Europe (the UK, Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia), how similar is it to the rest of Europe? What about Eastern Europe, or Southern Europe?
Yo Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:37 am GMT
So far no one has actually given a concrete example of German influence in the USA. Let's have a concrete example which is indisputably of German origin.
Let's first have a concrete example which is indisputably of British origin except language.
So far no one has actually given a concrete example of German influence in the USA. Let's have a concrete example which is indisputably of German origin.
Let's first have a concrete example which is indisputably of British origin except language.
>>Interesting. At least for me, I see myself as a Pacific Northwesterner first, a Westerner second, a North American third (have to include Canada too, as the closest major city is there, and BC is much more similar to here than anywhere in the US), and an English-speaker fourth (rather than just of European-derived culture). But that last one is very important, which is a link to all the other native English-speaking countries. A fifth one would be of Germanic or Western European-derived culture (not technically "descent", I suppose, as both my parents were born in Taiwan, but that's not very important.)<<
I was speaking in terms of what individuals actively identify as, not in terms of underlying cultural or linguistic ties. Of course we are culturally closer to English Canada than anywhere outside the US, and culturally closer to other other Germanic-language-speaking areas than just about anywhere else, but most people here would not say "North American" or "Germanic-language speaker" if they were asked. We are not like, say, Australians, New Zealanders, or natively English-speaking South Africans, who tend to see another country as "home" in a way, even if the idea of such has become anachronistic. There are places which have influenced the present-day culture here, which include both Great Britain and Germany, but none of those places are home to us today. They may have been to some of older generations, but most of those people are long gone now.
I was speaking in terms of what individuals actively identify as, not in terms of underlying cultural or linguistic ties. Of course we are culturally closer to English Canada than anywhere outside the US, and culturally closer to other other Germanic-language-speaking areas than just about anywhere else, but most people here would not say "North American" or "Germanic-language speaker" if they were asked. We are not like, say, Australians, New Zealanders, or natively English-speaking South Africans, who tend to see another country as "home" in a way, even if the idea of such has become anachronistic. There are places which have influenced the present-day culture here, which include both Great Britain and Germany, but none of those places are home to us today. They may have been to some of older generations, but most of those people are long gone now.