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verb and particle switching roles
Can we say the second example in each of these?
He ran away. He awayed himself by running. They scratched off the errors. They offed the errors by scratching.
<<He ran away.
He awayed himself by running. They scratched off the errors. They offed the errors by scratching. >> I work for a large international company, and I deal a lot with people from other nations, one being India where we do a lot of business. The above examples smack of the types of indirection I hear from Indian speakers of English (eg. "he awayed himself by running")... I agree, it's not common to hear. In fact, the hearer may have to do a double-take and ask you: "What was that again?" in order to make it out :)
<The above examples smack of the types of indirection I hear from Indian speakers of English (eg. "he awayed himself by running")... >
Or Indian speakers of Indian English, whic is an accepted variant-
To be honest with you, most of these alternatives are rubbish.
He ran away. Correct They scratched off the errors. Poor English He awayed himself by running. Rubbish They offed the errors by scratching. Rubbish
You can up the ante and down a pint; so why not off the errors?
Cf. this thread for another negative answer to the same question, however: http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/894101771 No doubt adverb-verbing tolerance varies from speaker to speaker. MrP
Hello Mr P.
I don't think that I am being over zealous on this one. I have looked at the Grammar Exchange. I do not entirely agree with what is there. ____________________________________________________________ From Richard the Moderator Of course not. There's no verb "to away" and the verb "to off" means "to kill." All you needed to do was look in a dictionary, my friend, to answer these questions. ____________________________________________________________ I agree that there is no verb "to away" I do not think that "to off" means "to kill". I think that problem is one of the blind leading the blind. Without being rude, I think there are people teaching English who cannot speak or write in English. I know there has been a discussion about whether English is an international language removed from its roots in the British Isles. However I think most people would agree with me when I say that: He awayed himself by running. They scratched off the errors. They offed the errors by scratching. Are not English expressions. They are wrong. In as far as it is possible to have 'right and wrong' in a language, they are wrong because they do not make sense. "offed" isn't even a word. I hope I have not caused any offence. Please have a look at my topic on Gordon Ramsay.
<He awayed himself by running.
... Are not English expressions. > Are these English expressions? Away with him! I'll away myself if you desire it.
<You can up the ante and down a pint; so why not off the errors? >
<No doubt adverb-verbing tolerance varies from speaker to speaker. > And how do you stand on the thread examples, MrPedantic?
Hello Robin,
<they are wrong because they do not make sense> Without necessarily disagreeing, I wonder whether a different choice of example would have seemed less wrong – for instance, 1. He upped and offed. Or even: 2. He offed his coat. 3. He offed the lights. <I hope I have not caused any offence> On the contrary. It's a pleasure to read your posts, especially after all the pointless aggression from a certain other contributor here. All the best, MrP
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"offed" isn't even a word. 'offed' is not a word. 'offed' is not a word in the dictionary. 'offed' does not exist in the English language. If you have a copy of the Cobuild dictionary DVD and you enter 'offed': nothing appears. A different choice of example does not make it any the less wrong. TASK Show me an example of the word 'offed' in a passage of English! Bye for now Robin Michael
You can find it in the OED, and in Merriam Webster online:
Main Entry: off Function: verb Date: 1717 intransitive verb : to go away : depart —used chiefly as an imperative <off, or I'll shoot> transitive verb slang : kill, murder http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/off[4] (Not very common now, of course.) All the best, MrP
"To up" too:
Main Entry: up Function: verb Inflected Form(s): upped \ˈəpt\ or in vi 2 up; upped; up·ping; ups or in vi 2 up Date: 1643 intransitive verb 1 a: to rise from a lying or sitting position b: to move upward : ascend 2—used with and and another verb to indicate that the action of the following verb was either surprisingly or abruptly initiated <he up and quit his job> transitive verb 1: raise, lift 2 a: to advance to a higher level: (1): increase (2): promote 1a b: raise 8d, e MrP
Unfortunately, I do not have a sufficient grasp of the rules of grammar to argue my case from a grammatical point of view. However, I would like to point out that these dates 1717 and 1643 are so long ago, that the word use they describe, is not that of modern English.
Believe me, 'offed' is not a word. I did the Task that I set, and I did find an example of the word 'offed' from an episode of Miami Vice. That rather surprised me. The only thing I can say about that exception is: "The exception proves the rule." Also, Miami, and Florida, is home to a lot of Hispanics and Cubans. So, this is strange slang version of English, found amongst speakers of English as a second language. You must appreciate, that a lot of people like making up 'new words'. Nobody is regulating the English language and saying that these words are not allowed. However, if they are never used, then they don't exist. So, under another Topic "of/off/offa", I was able to point to a popular song in which "off of" was used. People who listened to the YouTube clips could hear the different ways in which "of/off/offa" were pronounced. Hey, hey You, you Off of my cloud. >>>>Who me? Yes, you! Cheerio
I think perhaps in discussing something that is rather strange and unusual, I have forgotten to make a simple point.
Of course "off" is a word. To come back to one of your examples: 1. He upped and offed. Wrong 1. He upped and left Is more typical 2. He offed his coat. Wrong and ambiguous 2. He offered his coat 2. He took off his coat 3. He offed the lights. Wrong 3. He switched off the lights 3. He turned off the lights I cannot explain why adding -ed to 'off' is not acceptable. Possibly because of confusion with 'offered'. In practice, you do not come across the word 'offed'. I recently came across an unusual word construction. arse - British English slang for 'ass' or bottom (offensive) noun arsed - verb I think "I cannot be arsed" "I cannot be bothered" "I cannot be bothered getting off my arse and switching the television on to a different channel." Bye |