How d u think Chinese wud replace English as lengua franca?

>>Okay, I gotta know. Beathag, why are you learning French? I thought you were into the Gaelic languages. Are you interested in languages in general?

I have nothing against French, btw.<<

I am interested in languages, very much so. I have language books and cds and other software for Dutch, Welsh, Irish, Scottish Gaelic, German, and French. Will probably collect more over time.
It's one of my guilty pleasures.
I don't know why though. Neither my parents or my siblings are bilingual. Though I have one brother-in-law who is fluent in Mandarin and another who is fluent in Spanish.
And an aunt who speaks English, German, French, and Spanish..

>>The problem is when there is no obvious reason-learning languages becomes a questionable activity.<<

Yeah, my brother thinks it's rather pointless to learn anything aside from Spanish. Doesn't feel that anything else is "beneficial". And since I'm not pursuing Spanish, I get lectured a lot.

K. T. Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:57 am GMT
"Maybe you remember the 1968 Presidential campaign of George Wallace and Curtis E LeMay (the greatest big-bomber general of all time -- my idol). Wallace complained then about "pointy-headed intellectuals", and in certain quarters there's still a general anti-intellectual tendency here in the US. Consider the creationists and their rants about the "PHDs" who are trying to sell everybody on evolution."

I don't, actually. But I know who both of them are. I know of LeMay from aircraft museums, chiefly.

I don't find creationists to be anti-intellectual across the board. Physicists are sometimes creationists, or at least not orthodox followers of Darwin.

But I agree that there seems to be somewhat of an anti-intellectual bias in the States in some places. I haven't decided what it is. For some it may just be a caution to be modest, for others it is a hint of that some of what is evil is intellectual.


anti-intellectualism is way underrated. I mean don't get me wrong i love learning and knowledge in general. However a culture that's so pro thinking and wonder that all it produces is pseudo intellectuals is just as bad. Just the same rate poorly manage ideas are even worst. Just think were smart enough to build nuclear weapons, Carbon fueled cars,yet we don't have the discipline to use it properly. There's a large difference between pro knowledge and pro wisdom.

"It's one of my guilty pleasures."

I understand this on many levels. I love looking at new languages, materials, etc., but in reality, I usually work on maintaining the languages I know and learn a few other big, practical ones.

I'd like to learn Mongolian and Kazakh, but there is no reason for me to learn them. I don't know any Mongolian or Kazakh speakers. I just like the sound of these languages. I like Welsh as well, but again, not very practical.

"Yeah, my brother thinks it's rather pointless to learn anything aside from Spanish. Doesn't feel that anything else is "beneficial". And since I'm not pursuing Spanish, I get lectured a lot."

I agree with your brother that Spanish is beneficial, but it depends on your location. In some places in New England, French could be just as beneficial or more so than Spanish. French is a useful travel language as some people may speak it as a second language (Lebanese people,
people from Francophone countries in Africa) etc.

Did you mention that you are an LDS church member? I'm not, but I remember that Mitt Romney made a video for the olympics in French.
Of course, he sounds like Mitt Romney speaking French, but he's understandable.

***Surely, the British are better linguists than the (US) Americans?***

Not necessarily - Brits really are not generally regarded as being over keen to learn foreign Languages - I'm speaking generally here. Some Brits really are excellent linguistis and make every effort to be fluent in their chosen Languages, but sadly too many Brits place too much reliance on people from any other country having the ability to speak in English even in their own countries, which is pretty arrogant of the said Brits to say the least.

The massive advantage we Brits have over the Americans is our very close proximity to Continental Europe - we can actually see it from some of our coastlines in SE England on many days of good visibility - and to all the range of Languages being spoken just a stone's throw away, comparatively speaking, on the nearby European Continent, and therefore our much greater ease of access to all the various countries, something a huge number of Brits do on a regular basis all the year round.

In mid August I shall spend a "long weekend (alright - five days then) during which I shall pass through five Continental countries involving four different Languages - French, Flemish, German and Czech. I shall try my best to use, or attempt to use, the local Languages as far as possible - French should be relatively easy for me, German much less so but passable with care - but Flemish and Czech - no chance, I'm afraid but maybe I can get in a phrase or two I'd tried to learn in advance.

Working against British people though when it comes to using local Languages on the Continent is the widespread ability of people there to speak, or at least understand, English to varying degrees of competence, and some actually use the situation to work on and improve their standard of spoken English without leaving their own homeland.

Twice I have used French in Paris, knowing full well that I was word perfect in what I'd said, and with the best French accent I could muster but on each occasion I was responded to in English. Maybe I couldn't quite camouflage my Scottish accent even when speaking French - I can't imagine what that would sound like to a French person but there you go.

You'd think I'd be happy with that but I wasn't - I found it very dispiriting, and probably insulting, but there again, it was Paris after all, and we all know what so many Parisians are like, don't we? Rudeness is their way of life. ;-)

***Around here, knowing a foreign language can be regarded as somewhat unpatriotic or even unAmerican***

A sort of UnAmerican activity then? Oh dear God, that will never do - will it! Aw bless! ;-)

So with the Brits it's sheer laziness and arrogance? With the Americans a sheer fear of being regarded as unpatriotic and unfaithful to Uncle Sam and the Stars and Stripes? Oh my............!

>> Twice I have used French in Paris, knowing full well that I was word perfect in what I'd said, and with the best French accent I could muster but on each occasion I was responded to in English <<

Very common in Paris. Happened to me all the time.

>> ***Around here, knowing a foreign language can be regarded as somewhat unpatriotic or even unAmerican*** A sort of UnAmerican activity then? Oh dear God, that will never do - will it! Aw bless! ;- <<

Never heard that one before, and I live in the US. But who cares about patriatism anyway? Certainly not anyone I know. A country is just a country. I've learned many languages. I'm openly linguistic. Nobody's ever commented on it except by being impressed.

"Twice I have used French in Paris, knowing full well that I was word perfect in what I'd said, and with the best French accent I could muster but on each occasion I was responded to in English. Maybe I couldn't quite camouflage my Scottish accent even when speaking French - I can't imagine what that would sound like to a French person but there you go."

You could post a soundfile in the languages forum and see what native speakers think of your accent in French.

I'm not one to think that you can't cover your native accent in another language. You can, or you can cover it to the point that it isn't distracting. Then again, you may not feel it's worth the trouble. It may be that your gestures or clothing identify you as a foreigner more than a slight accent.

Some people are obsessed with getting an accent down perfectly and others don't care. Think of it another way. If a French person tried to speak English in Edinburgh and wasn't successful, would you try French with him or her?

"Never heard that one before, and I live in the US. But who cares about patriatism anyway? Certainly not anyone I know. A country is just a country. I've learned many languages. I'm openly linguistic. Nobody's ever commented on it except by being impressed."

Are you a citizen or just living in the US? I think a lot of Americans are patriotic whether or not they express it openly.

I am, and I think speaking other languages is actually patriotic.

For some reason, if you learn other languages people will assume you're a liberal and a supporter of Obama... Strange...

>>I understand this on many levels. I love looking at new languages, materials, etc., but in reality, I usually work on maintaining the languages I know and learn a few other big, practical ones.

I'd like to learn Mongolian and Kazakh, but there is no reason for me to learn them. I don't know any Mongolian or Kazakh speakers. I just like the sound of these languages. I like Welsh as well, but again, not very practical. <<

I really am just spending all my time working on Scottish Gaelic and French. The others I hope to dabble in someday, but they have a little less meaning that the other two. However I have one niece learning Irish, one Welsh, and one Japanese so I guess I spread on the enthusiasm! :-)

>>"Yeah, my brother thinks it's rather pointless to learn anything aside from Spanish. Doesn't feel that anything else is "beneficial". And since I'm not pursuing Spanish, I get lectured a lot."

I agree with your brother that Spanish is beneficial, but it depends on your location. In some places in New England, French could be just as beneficial or more so than Spanish. French is a useful travel language as some people may speak it as a second language (Lebanese people,
people from Francophone countries in Africa) etc.

Did you mention that you are an LDS church member? I'm not, but I remember that Mitt Romney made a video for the olympics in French.
Of course, he sounds like Mitt Romney speaking French, but he's understandable. <<

Well, living in the South Spanish is pretty beneficial but I really don't intend to always live here. My husband and I will probably be moving abroad in a few years and I am hoping that the French and English will be useful (in Europe). Besides, there are a lot of Mexicans in my hometown and they have told me that they can't understand "Cuban", among others. Which makes me wonder just how different the Spanish dialects are. I know that my in-laws, who are Puerto Rican, have to slow things down with Mexicans but they can still understand one another. Usually.

Yup, I'm LDS- that's why my brother-in-laws can speak foreign languages, from their two-year missions.

>>Never heard that one before, and I live in the US. But who cares about patriatism anyway? Certainly not anyone I know. A country is just a country. I've learned many languages. I'm openly linguistic. Nobody's ever commented on it except by being impressed. <<

Um, the whole US is big on patriotism! We LOVE our country- it's not just a place to live! I'd say you just live here, and aren't a citizen.
And if you are a citizen, I really hope you don't live in the Bible Belt- people wouldn't react kindly to hearing "a country is just a country". Might have an apoplexy lol.
And where I live, people might not like you learning Spanish because then they feel you are catering to the immigrants who won't learn English, but they keep their mouths shut because they know that it literally pays to learn Spanish. It is extremely beneficial where I live. But they won't keep their opinions to themselves on anything else.

>>For some reason, if you learn other languages people will assume you're a liberal and a supporter of Obama... Strange...<<

Wouldn't be a far-off assumption in my case.


Anyways, I think that the reason why learning other languages (I'm excluding Spanish) may be seen as unpatriotic is because people think... well, they think that if you're learning Punjabi or whatever it's because you don't want to live in the United States. That you are learning it to move abroad. Possibly for a long time since you are committing to a language. Which may be viewed as you not loving the US. Unpatriotic.
Think that's it?

I'm a US citizen from Seattle. I've never met these so-called "anti-intelectuals" that think that learning languages is unpatriotic. What morons!

>> And if you are a citizen, I really hope you don't live in the Bible Belt- people wouldn't react kindly to hearing "a country is just a country" <<

The people in the Bible spoke Hebrew or Aramaic, etc. and lived in Israel. What does the Bible have anything to do with patriotism to any country?

>> >>For some reason, if you learn other languages people wil assume you're a liberal and a supporter of Obama... Strange...<< Wouldn't be a far-off assumption in my case <<

Rubbish. I don't support anyone and yet I learn other languages.

>> Anyways, I think that the reason why learning other languages(I'm excluding Spanish) may be seen as unpatriotic is because people think... well, they think that if you're learning Punjabi or whatever it's because you don't want to live in the United States <<

Half my friends speak Mandarin. why wouldn't I want to learn it to be able to speak it with them. It's one of the most useful languages to know in the US, along with Japanese and Korean, at least here.

**>> And if you are a citizen, I really hope you don't live in the Bible Belt- people wouldn't react kindly to hearing "a country is just a country" <<

The people in the Bible spoke Hebrew or Aramaic, etc. and lived in Israel. What does the Bible have anything to do with patriotism to any country? **

The Bible Belt is a nickname for the South. I suggest you look it up- because I have been to Seattle and everyone there seemed to know what it meant.

**Half my friends speak Mandarin. why wouldn't I want to learn it to be able to speak it with them. It's one of the most useful languages to know in the US, along with Japanese and Korean, at least here.**

One of my brother-in-laws (from Pullman, WA at that) speaks fluent Mandarin. Washington has been the only state where it's been beneficial.
So, I have to disagree to it's usefulness in the US.

>> One of my brother-in-laws (from Pullman, WA at that) speaks fluent Mandarin. Washington has been the only state where it's been beneficial So, I have to disagree to it's usefulness in the US <<

Well I guess that may be the case. Not all states are as culturally diverse as Washington. Washington I believe is the most culturally diverse state.

>>Well I guess that may be the case. Not all states are as culturally diverse as Washington. Washington I believe is the most culturally diverse state.<<

It's not only that- it's also one of the most beautiful states in my opinion. And Seattle is my favorite city. Everyone is *usually* friendly and open-minded.