How d u think Chinese wud replace English as lengua franca?
FACT: "Where did you get the idea that it is slow to type Chinese on the computer? "
Fact, perhaps my information is old. I remember reading in the Guinness Book of World Records about Chinese typewriters, which were so huge that even an experienced typist could only manage 20-30 wpm. Perhaps computers have simplified all that; I don't know.
VINLANDER: Mandarin is not a language adults can learn. Learning tones is something you need a childs ear to get, and if you think of how children aquire reading skills it's far more on par with the way you learn to read chinese, no matter what age you star it will take abolut 15 years to reach fluency. No big deal if your kids enrolled early.
Vinlander, normally this would be very easy for me to believe! However, the latest research is that through the ALG method, Mandarin can indeed be learnt by adults, but the process is painfully slow—1000-2000 hours of listening is required before a single word of Mandarin can be spoken.
"Mandarin is not a language adults can learn. Learning tones is something you need a childs ear to get." Vinlander
That's not true. We have an older friend who learned Mandarin to a high level on his own and by going to Chinese school, I think. He is over fifty.
I am learning Mandarin now, and hope to work on it in more detail next year. I'm learning Greek this year, so I don't have as much time to devote to Mandarin.
When I speak my minimal Mandarin, I am always understood.
I don't know if EVERYONE can take on the double trouble of tones and characters, but it certainly is not impossible.
I am not a linguist, btw. I am a professional in another field unrelated to languages. I am also not a genius (obviously)...
<<You post was difficult to understand - please re-write it in clearer English. Personally I have no desire to see the Scottish, Irish or Welsh cultures "annihilated". As a Scot myself that would be rather silly don't you think?
As I said before the idea of the British invading Scotland and Wales would be really very difficult indeed to fathom out....both countries are full of Brits already....surely they wouldn't wish to "annihilate" themselves would they? >>
We are talking about the past not the present. The annihiliation is already done. There's nothing left to annihilate now.
<<
That's not true. We have an older friend who learned Mandarin to a high level on his own and by going to Chinese school, I think. He is over fifty. >>
Here's a better question. Is it possible to learn Mandarin in 1 hour a day at school starting at around 8 years old, no self-study, and be practically fluent on leaving school, with only a little tweaking to do at university? I doubt it, not even native Mandarin speakers know enough characters on leaving school.
"Here's a better question. Is it possible to learn Mandarin in 1 hour a day at school starting at around 8 years old, no self-study, and be practically fluent on leaving school, with only a little tweaking to do at university? I doubt it, not even native Mandarin speakers know enough characters on leaving school."
Do you mean the kind of classes that may be available at certain private schools?
It may be possible if there is a program for learning the characters on schedule instead of playing around with "intro to Chinese", "Fun with Chinese". It should be fun, but there needs to be a foundation.
K. T. Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:10 pm GMT
"Mandarin is not a language adults can learn. Learning tones is something you need a childs ear to get." Vinlander
That's not true. We have an older friend who learned Mandarin to a high level on his own and by going to Chinese school, I think. He is over fifty.
I am learning Mandarin now, and hope to work on it in more detail next year. I'm learning Greek this year, so I don't have as much time to devote to Mandarin.
When I speak my minimal Mandarin, I am always understood.
I don't know if EVERYONE can take on the double trouble of tones and characters, but it certainly is not impossible.
I am not a linguist, btw. I am a professional in another field unrelated to languages. I am also not a genius (obviously)...
for the most part i agree with you, mandarin can be learned by anyone, it's like learning russian for adult. my point is for a child to learn it, it's more like learning spanish. Spanish compared to learning russian is far easier, in terms of hours spent learning, however either language can be learned by adults.
As far as the idea of one hour a day for ten years in school, that's a joke, no language can be learned that easily
<<As far as the idea of one hour a day for ten years in school, that's a joke, no language can be learned that easily >>
.
English can.
<<((As far as the idea of one hour a day for ten years in school, that's a joke, no language can be learned that easily ))
English can. >>
English can? This is far from the truth.
Reading all these posts really makes me feel that I'd like to face the sheer challenge of learning Chinese - Mandarin I suppose.
After all, it's no way like tackling one of the European Continental Languages is it?
Even the sound of people speaking Chinese reinforces the enormity of the task involved in learning the Language - it just doesn't sound like any western Language in the way it's voiced - words seemed to be swallowed half way through somehow.
I reckon Japanese learning would be just as much of a challenge to a westerner, especially of the British variety, who are not at all regarded as being good linguists, by and large.
Why aren't the British regarded as good linguists?
I also noticed that you gave up trying to defend Britain ;-)
What is it about Britain you think I should defend? An invasion of the Yellow Peril? I adore Chinese food - I could eat it until it came our of my ears or until the cows come home, whichever happens first. ;-)
Sure Britain has faults - gazillions of them - but I wouldn't trade it in for some bolthole in the sun somewhere over the rainbow.....there'd be far too much for me to lose to be honest with you and I'm having a whale of a time in my nevertheless diverse and bountiful Blighty! ;-)
And it's so close to the rest of Europa and all its attractions.
"Spanish compared to learning russian is far easier, in terms of hours spent learning, however either language can be learned by adults."
For most native speakers of English, yes. It depends on one's first language for other people.
"Reading all these posts really makes me feel that I'd like to face the sheer challenge of learning Chinese - Mandarin I suppose.
After all, it's no way like tackling one of the European Continental Languages is it?"
The word order in Chinese is similar to English, so that's a plus for some people. The grammar isn't that difficult. Can you remember sounds?
In music, there is something called tonal recall. I wonder if this has any
bearing on whether people can remember words in other languages or remembering tones.
"Why aren't the British regarded as good linguists?"
I've heard this also. What foreign language requirements, if any, exist in public schools in GB?
Same reasons that Americans have. Except people from the UK have less of an excuse because they're part of Europe, and thus have a lot more neighbours than Americans have. The US just borders Mexico and Quebec, which are geographically very distant ftom large swatches of the country.
Shuimo, you totally missed the joke about the Chinese invading Soho. It was similar to what was called the British Invasion in the US in the 1960's -- it alluded to the popularity of imported songs from the UK, and nothing more sinister than that. So when you go on and on attacking Damian over a humorous reference, you just make yourself look ridiculous. It's a whole different use of the word "invasion"!
Damian, I don't for a second agree that all 27 members of the EU have anything even resembling equal influence in Europe, even if they legally have equal standing. It's the same within the US -- there are states that are heavy hitters and wield much more power than the rest, usually by virtue of their large populations and aggressive economic development -- like New York, California, and Texas-- and then there are states that have little clout at all, like Vermont or Wyoming or Idaho. I think we can safely say that France, Germany, and the UK are the heavy hitters of Europe, while Luxembourg and Portugal are, um, not so much....
The natural imbalance of power that occurs when one region of an entity simply has more people and more resources than another prompts most governments to seek artificial means of evening the playing field by other means, which is why the US has the Senate (where all states get equal representation), and no doubt the EU has mechanisms in place to achieve similar results, like its rotating presidency. But in the US there is no polite fiction that all states are as good as their neighbors; we fight each other like piglets at a sow for resource allocations and government funding!