Both phrases carry the same meaning?
"As well you should" &"so you should"
Yes, pretty much. "As well you should" strikes me as slightly more of an "old-fashioned" usage. Not that it's archaic or not used anymore; it is still very much in use. It just seems like one of those turns of phrase that has survived long after other similar phrases have died out in regular speech; a remnant, in other words. Kind of like "it's an ill wind that blows no good" ("ill" in the sense of bad is rarely used except in stock phrases like that and "ill-tempered"), or "ne'er-do-well" (no one leaves out the V these days) or "hail-fellow-well-met" (nobody says "well met" anymore). Of course, that's just my impression.
If "As well you should!" is an old phrase, it is a very rare one: it doesn't respond well to a search on Google Books, except as a part of different constructions (e.g. "it's as well he should know about...").
It looks like a miscombination of "As well you might!" and "And so you should!"
If you found this phrase on an "idioms" site, the inputter was half-asleep.
It looks like a miscombination of "As well you might!" and "And so you should!"
If you found this phrase on an "idioms" site, the inputter was half-asleep.
I don't think that they can be substituted for each other in most situations. Especially as the second has an ambiguity in that "so" can mean "in such a manner" or "consequently".
That little word "as" can sometimes bring the same force of consequential connectivity as does "so". After all, "as" in its etymology is a weakened form of "also" (which once had a meaning of "entirely so"). The phrase "as well you should" enjoys a venerable history and a current place in English.
Perhaps less emphasis should be placed on Googling these usages in attempts to demonstrate their supposed frequency : such bean-counting is not a faithful or useful reflection of idiomatical context.
Uriel is correct to say that both "so you should" and "as well you should" convey essentially the same meaning. If there were any slight difference, it would be that the antiquarian nuance of "as well you should" might add a didactical gravity to the intended hortatory effect (or else render it laughable, depending on the hearer).
Perhaps less emphasis should be placed on Googling these usages in attempts to demonstrate their supposed frequency : such bean-counting is not a faithful or useful reflection of idiomatical context.
Uriel is correct to say that both "so you should" and "as well you should" convey essentially the same meaning. If there were any slight difference, it would be that the antiquarian nuance of "as well you should" might add a didactical gravity to the intended hortatory effect (or else render it laughable, depending on the hearer).
<Perhaps less emphasis should be placed on Googling these usages in attempts to demonstrate their supposed frequency...The phrase "as well you should" enjoys a venerable history and a current place in English. >
I'm happy to retract my adverse comment about inputters, if you can provide some examples of the phrase's "venerable history".
I have no particular interest in rejecting it; but if a phrase does not have a significant presence in Google Books, for instance in one of its many books on idiom, or in a classic text, it's likely that the phrase is not old or common.
I'm happy to retract my adverse comment about inputters, if you can provide some examples of the phrase's "venerable history".
I have no particular interest in rejecting it; but if a phrase does not have a significant presence in Google Books, for instance in one of its many books on idiom, or in a classic text, it's likely that the phrase is not old or common.
Seems common to me. I don't rely on Google to tell me what I've heard over the years, and I think it's weird that counting hits is suddenly the last word in statistical analysis.
Dont get me wrong, Copyright, I think Google Books is a very handy resource ~ but it doesn't have everything and what it does show is offered in an incomplete form as to text. Inputters, content providers, Web thingie daemons, I don't mind 'em (It's only the Internet) : Try a life spent on both sides of the Atlantic listening to all around you. I grew up in Ireland and Newfoundland surrounded by many old folk who were born in the reign of Victoria (Her Majesty died in 1901).
That said --and with my personal assurance that "as well you should" is no recent coinage, for all its rarity on the Web-- I do respect your right to glean what evidence you can from Google, Copyright, any time. Have at it. Far be it from myself to dissuade you (especially on this my first day of posting at Antimoon) ; I would only counsel some moderation therein and just a smidgen of scepticism.
By the way, for any reader who is beginning English out there, if you see a comma in that phrase --"As well, you should"-- then the meaning will be altered to convey the sense, "In addition, you should" or "Also, you should" and perhaps even a suggestion of "Equally, you should".
That said --and with my personal assurance that "as well you should" is no recent coinage, for all its rarity on the Web-- I do respect your right to glean what evidence you can from Google, Copyright, any time. Have at it. Far be it from myself to dissuade you (especially on this my first day of posting at Antimoon) ; I would only counsel some moderation therein and just a smidgen of scepticism.
By the way, for any reader who is beginning English out there, if you see a comma in that phrase --"As well, you should"-- then the meaning will be altered to convey the sense, "In addition, you should" or "Also, you should" and perhaps even a suggestion of "Equally, you should".
<Seems common to me.>
<with my personal assurance that "as well you should" is no recent coinage, for all its rarity on the Web>
I would be happy to stand corrected; but it seems strange that no one can find an example in a reputable source.
Compare "As well you might" and "And so you should": well documented both.
<with my personal assurance that "as well you should" is no recent coinage, for all its rarity on the Web>
I would be happy to stand corrected; but it seems strange that no one can find an example in a reputable source.
Compare "As well you might" and "And so you should": well documented both.
I wrote : "on this my first day of posting at Antimoon" ~ Well, I guess the time difference in Breslau made it yesterday (Tuesday), technically speaking, that I first posted in these pages.
I will add, that the English idiom "as well you should" is somewhat colloquial, being an informally brief form of "It is as well you should" ('Tis as well/It's as well) -- a construction which your correspondent named "Copyright" had encountered in abundant historical examples in a Google Books search : e. g., "The Inheritance", 1836 ; "The Daltons" by Charles James Lever, 1852 ; "Villette" by Charlotte Brontë, 1853 ; Godey's Magazine, 1861 ; Harper's, 1863. The fact is, the farther back one goes chronologically, the fewer examples in print will one find of any colloquialism, even a very old idiom : for in days of yore there were stricter editors, fewer books published, and the authors themselves had more formal training, in that they would have used the humbler, more familiar forms of speech, local patter and street jargon quite sparingly in their writings. The Victorian era has had a reputation for having put too much emphasis on the appearance of respectability ~ and it is a reputation well earned. But in looking at any literary period prior to modern times, slang --or anything like it-- comes dead last in "number of hits".
I must confess I do not find the Victorian vintages particularly old or venerable for a word or phrase's origin. I'd be much more content with a good citation out of Ben Jonson, if not Geoffrey Chaucer !
I will add, that the English idiom "as well you should" is somewhat colloquial, being an informally brief form of "It is as well you should" ('Tis as well/It's as well) -- a construction which your correspondent named "Copyright" had encountered in abundant historical examples in a Google Books search : e. g., "The Inheritance", 1836 ; "The Daltons" by Charles James Lever, 1852 ; "Villette" by Charlotte Brontë, 1853 ; Godey's Magazine, 1861 ; Harper's, 1863. The fact is, the farther back one goes chronologically, the fewer examples in print will one find of any colloquialism, even a very old idiom : for in days of yore there were stricter editors, fewer books published, and the authors themselves had more formal training, in that they would have used the humbler, more familiar forms of speech, local patter and street jargon quite sparingly in their writings. The Victorian era has had a reputation for having put too much emphasis on the appearance of respectability ~ and it is a reputation well earned. But in looking at any literary period prior to modern times, slang --or anything like it-- comes dead last in "number of hits".
I must confess I do not find the Victorian vintages particularly old or venerable for a word or phrase's origin. I'd be much more content with a good citation out of Ben Jonson, if not Geoffrey Chaucer !
If you don't know the phrase "as well you should" then we can quite confidently say your English is not very good, and you can in no way be considered anywhere near mastering it.
I think I know what Copyright is driving at : that the actual form "as well you should" --just so, as such, and in so many words-- may not be as old or as common as some others like it, found in precedents such as this ballad :
"Holla, good fellowes !" quod Robin Hood,
"Whether is it ye doe goe ?
Now stay and rest, For that is the best,
'Tis well you should doe so."
("Robin Hood and the Peddlers" [sic], probably circa 1650, ed. Child 1860)
"As well you should" might be a more recent (Victorian) form of "'Tis well you should".
I see no reason to doom our sceptical friend to learning English all over again. (Maybe Copyright hails from Missouri, the Show Me State !)
"Holla, good fellowes !" quod Robin Hood,
"Whether is it ye doe goe ?
Now stay and rest, For that is the best,
'Tis well you should doe so."
("Robin Hood and the Peddlers" [sic], probably circa 1650, ed. Child 1860)
"As well you should" might be a more recent (Victorian) form of "'Tis well you should".
I see no reason to doom our sceptical friend to learning English all over again. (Maybe Copyright hails from Missouri, the Show Me State !)
I wrote : "slang --or anything like it-- comes dead last".
I meant specifically in the writing of prose ; as you may know, the plays of Shakespeare and Jonson are full of slang, cant and jargon.
I meant specifically in the writing of prose ; as you may know, the plays of Shakespeare and Jonson are full of slang, cant and jargon.
< will add, that the English idiom "as well you should" is somewhat colloquial, being an informally brief form of "It is as well you should" ('Tis as well/It's as well) >
In my earlier post, I allowed for the forms you mention; but they belong to different constructions.
For example, the second item in the Google Books search is:
<it's as well you should know.>
This means "It would be better that you knew". It does not mean "And so you should!", which is a lively confirmation of something that has just been said by another speaker.
Similarly with your Robin Hood example, "Tis well you should doe so." (It would create nonsense to say "Now stay and rest. And so you should!"; though you said earlier that they had "essentially the same meaning".)
Besides which, the "as" in this supposed "As well you should!", if it's analogous to "As well you might!", is a different part of speech from the "as" in the ballad: it's a relative pronoun, meaning "which", not an adverb.
(The referent of the "as" is the content of the other person's utterance.)
In my earlier post, I allowed for the forms you mention; but they belong to different constructions.
For example, the second item in the Google Books search is:
<it's as well you should know.>
This means "It would be better that you knew". It does not mean "And so you should!", which is a lively confirmation of something that has just been said by another speaker.
Similarly with your Robin Hood example, "Tis well you should doe so." (It would create nonsense to say "Now stay and rest. And so you should!"; though you said earlier that they had "essentially the same meaning".)
Besides which, the "as" in this supposed "As well you should!", if it's analogous to "As well you might!", is a different part of speech from the "as" in the ballad: it's a relative pronoun, meaning "which", not an adverb.
(The referent of the "as" is the content of the other person's utterance.)
<But in looking at any literary period prior to modern times, slang --or anything like it-- comes dead last in "number of hits". >
<I meant specifically in the writing of prose ; as you may know, the plays of Shakespeare and Jonson are full of slang, cant and jargon>
Well, no, there is plenty of slang in Elizabethan and Jacobean prose; including, not excluding, the prose passages in the plays of Jonson and Shakespeare; and the Restoration drama has its share too.
But in any case, this "As well you should!", if your analysis is correct, isn't slang: it's an ellipsis. There is no reason why it shouldn't appear in at least a few Victorian novels, as other similar phrases do; and yet it seems to appear nowhere.
<I meant specifically in the writing of prose ; as you may know, the plays of Shakespeare and Jonson are full of slang, cant and jargon>
Well, no, there is plenty of slang in Elizabethan and Jacobean prose; including, not excluding, the prose passages in the plays of Jonson and Shakespeare; and the Restoration drama has its share too.
But in any case, this "As well you should!", if your analysis is correct, isn't slang: it's an ellipsis. There is no reason why it shouldn't appear in at least a few Victorian novels, as other similar phrases do; and yet it seems to appear nowhere.