"I'm even wondering if it wouldn't be easier for a Romanian to understand Napoletan dialect than literary Latin"
Correction: I meant literary Italian, of course :-)
Correction: I meant literary Italian, of course :-)
ROMANIAN the closest to CLASSICAL LATIN
Is it a matter of pride that you consider the Romanian language closest to classical Latin?
Personally I'd consider it desireable for a language to be highly evolved rather than preserving the primitive/ancestral state. I use the terms primitive and ancestral in their evolutionary senses rather than pejoratively. It would seem that the tendency in the Indo-European languages is to become more analytic as they evolve, with Afrikaans the youngest Indo-European language being almost completely analytic (even more so than English). Certainly the Latinate synthetic structure seems horribly cumbersome to me.
Personally I'd consider it desireable for a language to be highly evolved rather than preserving the primitive/ancestral state. I use the terms primitive and ancestral in their evolutionary senses rather than pejoratively. It would seem that the tendency in the Indo-European languages is to become more analytic as they evolve, with Afrikaans the youngest Indo-European language being almost completely analytic (even more so than English). Certainly the Latinate synthetic structure seems horribly cumbersome to me.
@ FRONTERA
NO, IM FORM SICILY, but i know calabrese dialect becuse my grandparents were from reggio di calabria.
@ Georgero
indeed dialects are much easier to understand tahn literary italian,
NO, IM FORM SICILY, but i know calabrese dialect becuse my grandparents were from reggio di calabria.
@ Georgero
indeed dialects are much easier to understand tahn literary italian,
S.P.Q.R same here grandparents where from Calabria, I've been wanting to move there all my life. But I have know clue what to expect. Would you mind helping me out. Also I have read that Calabria and Sicily are very close. Is that true and how does it play out between the two ppl?
>>>Is it a matter of pride that you consider the Romanian language closest to classical Latin?<<<
Dear Ed,
it is fact that Romanian is closest to classical Latin grammatically. We don't consider this for national pride (at least I don't). I consider Romanian as the closest language to classical latin for the sake of knowledge not nationality. Just like Italian is closest to vulgar Latin phonologically (in some cases) and lexically.
I agree with you on the evolution of languages. However, Romance languages are a special case. The facts are, at least grammatically, romance languages are slowly becoming less advanced and more primitive, like english.
Latin was a highly advanced language it had 6 cases 4 nouns and 3 gendres. At present most Romance Languages are losing such complexities and becoming more simple. De Exemplu: All Romance languages lost the Latin Locative case. Effectivally, becoming more primitive as mentioned before.
Salve!
Dear Ed,
it is fact that Romanian is closest to classical Latin grammatically. We don't consider this for national pride (at least I don't). I consider Romanian as the closest language to classical latin for the sake of knowledge not nationality. Just like Italian is closest to vulgar Latin phonologically (in some cases) and lexically.
I agree with you on the evolution of languages. However, Romance languages are a special case. The facts are, at least grammatically, romance languages are slowly becoming less advanced and more primitive, like english.
Latin was a highly advanced language it had 6 cases 4 nouns and 3 gendres. At present most Romance Languages are losing such complexities and becoming more simple. De Exemplu: All Romance languages lost the Latin Locative case. Effectivally, becoming more primitive as mentioned before.
Salve!
Octavian : « The facts are, at least grammatically, romance languages are slowly becoming less advanced and more primitive, like english. »
Te rends-tu compte de l'inanité de tes propos ? Pourquoi associes-tu la déclinaison avec la complexité — à l'exclusion de toute autre considération ?
Te rends-tu compte de l'inanité de tes propos ? Pourquoi associes-tu la déclinaison avec la complexité — à l'exclusion de toute autre considération ?
OCtavian said<<<Latin was a highly advanced language it had 6 cases 4 nouns and 3 gendres. At present most Romance Languages are losing such complexities and becoming more simple. De Exemplu: All Romance languages lost the Latin Locative case. Effectivally, becoming more primitive as mentioned before. <<<<
IS a language considered advanced in relation to it's inflection?
I tought always that the expression power was one of the main features to consider not the grammar complexity
IS a language considered advanced in relation to it's inflection?
I tought always that the expression power was one of the main features to consider not the grammar complexity
"Octavian or someone else: you would see that I specifically said that Romanian is the closest language to classical Latin GRAMMATICALLY. As in, Romanian syntax is the closest to that of classical Latin out of all the Romance languages"
I didn't want to come into this pathetic discussion but I am curious. I know and understand Latin, Italian, Spanish grammar and syntax and a little bit of romanian grammar.
SYNTAX is the principal footprint in determining the closeness and heritage of a certain language.
So I ask you, romanians: DEMONSTRATE that romanian syntax is closer to Latin syntax than Italian and Spanish one. I mean all the syntax: the organization of implicit and explicit clauses in a period.
And please do not mention examples like Intellego <--> Inteleg, because:
1: they are not syntax examples
2: I can mention tens of examples for italian words coincident with classical latin one.
I didn't want to come into this pathetic discussion but I am curious. I know and understand Latin, Italian, Spanish grammar and syntax and a little bit of romanian grammar.
SYNTAX is the principal footprint in determining the closeness and heritage of a certain language.
So I ask you, romanians: DEMONSTRATE that romanian syntax is closer to Latin syntax than Italian and Spanish one. I mean all the syntax: the organization of implicit and explicit clauses in a period.
And please do not mention examples like Intellego <--> Inteleg, because:
1: they are not syntax examples
2: I can mention tens of examples for italian words coincident with classical latin one.
Benissimo Civis romanus sum!
I ask that some romanian shows these classicla latin rules still present in italian.
1) Consecutio modorum
2) Attractio Modorum
I ask that some romanian shows these classicla latin rules still present in italian.
1) Consecutio modorum
2) Attractio Modorum
S.P.Q.R, what traits of "CLASSICAL" Latin does Spanish still have? And if so..show me some examples, thanks. I know besides the obvious of the "accusative" and verb conjuncting & vocabulary
The rules tha regulates the verb in the regent clause and in the subordinate one in order to express anteriority posteriority an contemporaneity, usually the subordinate clause go to subjunctive mood, and there are still present the infinitive clauses.
>>S.P.Q.R, what traits of "CLASSICAL" Latin does Spanish still have? And if so..show me some examples, thanks. I know besides the obvious of the "accusative" and verb conjuncting & vocabulary <<
This post was not posted by me.
This post was not posted by me.
JR; to answer your question.
Spanish besides having the following as mentioned by "S.P.Q.R"
>>The rules tha regulates the verb in the regent clause and in the subordinate one in order to express anteriority posteriority an contemporaneity, usually the subordinate clause go to subjunctive mood, and there are still present the infinitive clauses. <<<
Spanish has the "sibilant" -s- of Classical latin, for example:
the word "tis" means "it is" (has a hiss-like sound. This occurs in SPANISH when PRONOUNCING the "s" in the beginning/middle or ending of an word.) In other words, whenever there is an 's' in SPANISH it's pronounced as disclosed. Example;
lecciones (hiss like sound at the end)
cosa (hiss like sound in the middle)
supe (hiss like sound in the beginning)
Also, historically speaking; scholars & historians "think" that Spanish & Italian have the closest to pronuncing the double -rr-twirl r, while singular it was just pronounced normally or an flap. Somewhat similar. Of course the spanish vocabulary is very much CLOSES to Classical-latin and in the verb-conjuncting and nevertheless the "accusative" case. Something of interest,
"Spanish often holds closely to Classical-latin grammar" some examples;
Spero melior (classical latin)
Espero lo mejor (Spanish)
verso (classical latin)
inverso (spanish)
Vivat rex (classical latin)
Viva el rey (spanish)
more examples--->>> http://www.yuni.com/library/latin_7.html
pronounciation--->>> http://orbilat.com/Languages/Latin/Grammar/Latin-Pronunciation-Syllable-Accent.html
"linguists think that Latin probably sounded something like Italian, though some features make it close to Castillian Spanish."
1) Substantivum/sustantivo: rosa-rosa, dominus-dueno, rector-rector;
2) Adjectivum/adjetivo: bonus-bueno, magnus-magno, felix-feliz;
3) Numerale/numeral: tres-tres, quinque-cinco;
4) Pronomen/pronombre: ego-yo, tu-tu;
5) Verbum/verbo: amo-amo, teneo-tengo, lego-leo, capio-cojo & audio-oigo
GRAMMAR EVIDENCE....of Spanish and Classical-latin similarily
Columba Mea; (In Classical Latin)
Columba mea in via bona;
Columba mea sine macula.
Stellam victoriae exspectat;
Ad paradisum me portabit.
O columba sancta mea!
Quare in tristitia amo te?
Quando in libertate volabimus?
Hic semper exspecto adventum tuum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paloma Mía; ( Spanish)
Paloma mía en la buena via.
Paloma mía sin macula/mancha.
Espera la estrella de victoria.
Me llevará al paraíso.
¡O santa paloma mía!
¿Por qué te amo con tristeza?
¿Cuándo volaremos con libertad?
Aquí siempre espero tu venida.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pulcher poeta; (In Classical Latin)
creatura litterarum.
Vita dulcis tua gratia plena est.
Ex anima sancta tua scribes.
Vitae lumen donant verba tua.
Pulcher poeta, amo poemata tua.
Sine verba vivere non possum.
Ex anima tua bibo aquam pacis.
Vitam meam pingunt verba tua.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Preciosa Poeta; (Spanish)
criatura/creatura de letras.
Tu dulce vida es plena de gracia.
De tu santa anima tú escribes.
Tus palabras iluminan la vida.
Preciosa poeta, amo tus poemas.
Ahora no puedo vivir sin palabras.
De tu anima bebo el agua de paz.
Tus palabras pintan mi vida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salve Agricola (In Classical-Latin)
Terra amica tua est;
Ager consolator tuus est;
Pluvia lavat lacrimas tuas;
Sol et luna semper te salutant;
Victoriam exspectat horreum.
Salve, creatura bona!
Famem mundi fugas tu;
Ad mensam mundum duces.
Diem longam hymnus replet;
Sudor tuus fluvius laetitiae est!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salve agricultor: (In Spanish)
La tierra es tu amigo;
El campo es tu consolador;
La lluvia lava tus lagrimas;
El sol y la luna siempre te saludan;
La granja de la arroz esperan una victoria.
Salve, buena criatura/creatura!
Tu limpias la hambre del mundo;
Tu diriges el mundo a la mesa.
Los dias largos se llenan de himnos;
Tu sudor se convierte a la felicidad!
Enjoy! caveat spectator es per forum, non pro comprobare
Spanish besides having the following as mentioned by "S.P.Q.R"
>>The rules tha regulates the verb in the regent clause and in the subordinate one in order to express anteriority posteriority an contemporaneity, usually the subordinate clause go to subjunctive mood, and there are still present the infinitive clauses. <<<
Spanish has the "sibilant" -s- of Classical latin, for example:
the word "tis" means "it is" (has a hiss-like sound. This occurs in SPANISH when PRONOUNCING the "s" in the beginning/middle or ending of an word.) In other words, whenever there is an 's' in SPANISH it's pronounced as disclosed. Example;
lecciones (hiss like sound at the end)
cosa (hiss like sound in the middle)
supe (hiss like sound in the beginning)
Also, historically speaking; scholars & historians "think" that Spanish & Italian have the closest to pronuncing the double -rr-twirl r, while singular it was just pronounced normally or an flap. Somewhat similar. Of course the spanish vocabulary is very much CLOSES to Classical-latin and in the verb-conjuncting and nevertheless the "accusative" case. Something of interest,
"Spanish often holds closely to Classical-latin grammar" some examples;
Spero melior (classical latin)
Espero lo mejor (Spanish)
verso (classical latin)
inverso (spanish)
Vivat rex (classical latin)
Viva el rey (spanish)
more examples--->>> http://www.yuni.com/library/latin_7.html
pronounciation--->>> http://orbilat.com/Languages/Latin/Grammar/Latin-Pronunciation-Syllable-Accent.html
"linguists think that Latin probably sounded something like Italian, though some features make it close to Castillian Spanish."
1) Substantivum/sustantivo: rosa-rosa, dominus-dueno, rector-rector;
2) Adjectivum/adjetivo: bonus-bueno, magnus-magno, felix-feliz;
3) Numerale/numeral: tres-tres, quinque-cinco;
4) Pronomen/pronombre: ego-yo, tu-tu;
5) Verbum/verbo: amo-amo, teneo-tengo, lego-leo, capio-cojo & audio-oigo
GRAMMAR EVIDENCE....of Spanish and Classical-latin similarily
Columba Mea; (In Classical Latin)
Columba mea in via bona;
Columba mea sine macula.
Stellam victoriae exspectat;
Ad paradisum me portabit.
O columba sancta mea!
Quare in tristitia amo te?
Quando in libertate volabimus?
Hic semper exspecto adventum tuum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paloma Mía; ( Spanish)
Paloma mía en la buena via.
Paloma mía sin macula/mancha.
Espera la estrella de victoria.
Me llevará al paraíso.
¡O santa paloma mía!
¿Por qué te amo con tristeza?
¿Cuándo volaremos con libertad?
Aquí siempre espero tu venida.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pulcher poeta; (In Classical Latin)
creatura litterarum.
Vita dulcis tua gratia plena est.
Ex anima sancta tua scribes.
Vitae lumen donant verba tua.
Pulcher poeta, amo poemata tua.
Sine verba vivere non possum.
Ex anima tua bibo aquam pacis.
Vitam meam pingunt verba tua.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Preciosa Poeta; (Spanish)
criatura/creatura de letras.
Tu dulce vida es plena de gracia.
De tu santa anima tú escribes.
Tus palabras iluminan la vida.
Preciosa poeta, amo tus poemas.
Ahora no puedo vivir sin palabras.
De tu anima bebo el agua de paz.
Tus palabras pintan mi vida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salve Agricola (In Classical-Latin)
Terra amica tua est;
Ager consolator tuus est;
Pluvia lavat lacrimas tuas;
Sol et luna semper te salutant;
Victoriam exspectat horreum.
Salve, creatura bona!
Famem mundi fugas tu;
Ad mensam mundum duces.
Diem longam hymnus replet;
Sudor tuus fluvius laetitiae est!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salve agricultor: (In Spanish)
La tierra es tu amigo;
El campo es tu consolador;
La lluvia lava tus lagrimas;
El sol y la luna siempre te saludan;
La granja de la arroz esperan una victoria.
Salve, buena criatura/creatura!
Tu limpias la hambre del mundo;
Tu diriges el mundo a la mesa.
Los dias largos se llenan de himnos;
Tu sudor se convierte a la felicidad!
Enjoy! caveat spectator es per forum, non pro comprobare