Vive Le Quebec libre

Well, French, I think I am probably more of an Anglo-Danish-Celtic than an Anglo-Saxon, as I am from the North of England with an Irish grandmother. If you say my 'culture' is Anglo-Saxon though, who am I contradict you? I can avow, however, that I don't have any Norman blood in me though - I think that strain was responsible for all the inbred rugby playing aristo types in the Home counties.

Actually all that was meant to be tongue in cheek, in case we have any irony-deficient people reading. Candy's comment was fairly close to the mark, although it is sad that we really need to state such obvious points here.

norman at this time were not french... >>
Well, part-Viking then....whatever....
Are you denying that a large part of the English language comes from French?

The Normans were a mixture of the indigenous Gauls of France and the Viking invaders, but mostly Gaul.
The Norman language is a Romance language, one of the Oïl languages. The name Norman-French is sometimes used to describe not only the modern Norman language.

Hi Sebastien (sorry, I know there's an accent on your name, but I don't know how to type it)
Thanks for taking the time to write such an interesting and lucid post - a much higher standard than most of the posts here (people accusing others of racism etc)
I hope you realise I'm not hostile to Quebec and the French language and culture - I'm really not! My comment that you should 'stand up to English' wasn't meant to imply your passivity, but was more a comment on a lot of posts to this forum complaining about the pernicious influence of English. ('I'm not hostile to English, but it's taking over') And Sebastien, whatever Quebec may have suffered in the past from Britain, it wasn't my fault! (what did the British do in Quebec, anyway? Was it in your lifetime?)
Having read your reasons for independence, I now understand them. I don't AGREE with them, but I'm not Canadian, I only live with one in Europe, so it's not my business really.
I take your points about bilingualism (although I know a few English Canadians who speak pretty good French) and different culture. Of course French culture in North America should be different, and remain so, but I meant that even if/when Quebec becomes independent, you'll still be exposed to English-speaking media and culture, surely? Is that likely to change so much?
Can you explain about Bill 101, because I've only heard really negative things about it, and I'd love to hear the other side! Also, do you believe that English-speaking inhabitants of Quebec should take their schooling in French? Thanks, Sebastien!

Les termes "anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes)" et "Anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes)" ont deux significations en français :

UNE SIGNIFICATION ETHNIQUE ET CULTURELLE
Cf les Anglo-saxons du moyen-âge : ceux qui venaient d'Alllemagne septentrionale et du Danemark méridional.

UNE SIGNIFICATION LINGUISTIQUE ET CULTURELLE
Toute personne, quelle que soit sa nationalité, sa culture, sa couleur de peau etc, ayant l'anglais pour langue maternelle.

I'm objecting to the use of the term in the English posts, not the French ones.

Hi Candy
So you live with a canadian? well... ;)

"you'll still be exposed to English-speaking media and culture, surely? Is that likely to change so much?"

You're absolutely right, we will always been exposed to english speaking culture. They are our neighbors, and we are aware of being a minority in North America and that somehow we have to come to terms with that. In fact, it's not a fundamental problem because our will is just to be the masters of our destiny. As an independent state we will not be humiliated anymore nor ordered by Ottawa what to do, how to act etc. Québec will be a true francophone country with a "north american lifestyle" but able to better protect its own culture ;)


"Can you explain about Bill 101, because I've only heard really negative things about it, and I'd love to hear the other side!"

You have to know that in the 1960's, Québec became more dependent on international immigration to maintain its demographic weight within the Canadian federation. And to welcome immigrants, it has moved away from a religious and ethnic vision of the "French-Canadian nation" to see itself as a civic and territorial nation (that is, as a distinct, francophone, pluralistic and liberal society within Canada). While the rest of Canada has gone through a similar transformation, Québec, being the only predominantly French society in North America, has encountered a unique problem: instead of integrating into the French-speaking majority, immigrants overwhelmingly opted to join the ranks of the anglophone minority and enrolled in English schools, universities, hospitals and social services. In fact, prior to Bill 101, more than 80% of immigrants to Québec integrated into the anglophone minority of the province. In a way I understand them, they considered that as a "stepping stone" to an English-speaking continent. So, the challenge of integrating allophone immigrants into Québec's French majority became more difficult every day, given the overpowering presence of English language and American culture in a globalized world.

This is why there really was the need for a law to preserve the French character of Québec and prevent immigrants from joining the English minority of the province. Of course it was not an easy thing to accept here in North America where English is fast becoming the lingua franca of science, technology and commerce. Howewer it's essential for us!

The charter of the french language (aka Bill 101) , as it was passed in 1977, proclaimed French as the official language in Québec for just about every facet of life in the province: government, judicial system, education, advertising, business, contracts, etc.
English education was to be restricted mostly to those already in the system, their siblings, those temporarily posted in Québec or whose parents had themselves received an English elementary education in the province.

Actually the debates around bill 101 have never abetted and seem endless. I know the law has received very bad press outside of Québec and anglophones living in Québec have never accepted it. They reject the view that French is a threatened language and that it requires strong legislative protection. Those who oppose legislation to protect a language in public life must acknowledge that absolute freedom of choice is another way of saying that the strongest will prevail and English would have a monopoly in North America.

By contrast, as you can imagine, the bill has received widespread support from the francophone community. We view the bill as an essential protection against the increasingly pervasive spread of the dominance of the English language in North America, indeed the world. Even my grand-parents remember the days when French was insignificant as a language of achievement and promotion in the province, when discrimination was rampant, and when businesses did not provide fair and adequate services in french. You know, what many anglophones view as an instrument of oppression is seen by us as the thunderous expression of our right to live in French in just ONE corner of North America. It put a French face on the province and ensured that Quebecers could carry on all aspects of their lives in French.
However A number of changes have been effected to the bill. In 1984 the Supreme Court invalidated a part of Bill 101 on the basis of its incompatibility with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Then the National Assembly (under a Liberal government) recognized right to English language education was extended to all Canadian citizens. This sparked a legal battle that still goes on today between Québec and the federal institutions.


"Also, do you believe that English-speaking inhabitants of Quebec should take their schooling in French?"

Even though Québec's official language is French and new immigrants are obligated by law to send their children to French-speaking schools, the English-speaking community has its own complete educational system, from preschool to university, and has access to all services in its own language. It manages on their own its learning, health and social services institutions, along with numerous radio and television stations, newspapers and magazines. I think that the historic rights of the anglophone minority in Quebec has to be preserved. I mean it doesn't bother me that much. However within the framework of an independent francophone Québec, they will have to learn french.


I hope it will have help you to better understand the complex situation :)

it will have helpED you...
Sorry for that mistake.

Quebec is the last french settlement in Continental North America, Louisiana used to be french as well, but we all know what happened...

Maybe you haven't heard of East Timor, but it's the world's newest nation! And... it's Latin just as Quebec is, it wasn't easy for East Timor to gain independence though, because Indonesia - which is considerably bigger and more developed - wouldn't let it separate. Anyway, following the UN - sponsored act of self - determination in 2002 East Timor through a referendum gained independence, so why can't Quebec do the same?

Throughout history former Spanish, French and Portuguese colonies have become either English, "UStanian" (it is unfair for Latin Americans to call people from the US "Americans") or Dutch. Many territories have been lost (like Jamaica, Philippines and Guam) and therefore English has been imposed as the dominant language. I my opinion it's Latins duty to help prevail the Latin Identity for future generations... and defend their right to exist without being by the "cultural enrichment" lie.

Candy : toute langue évolue, y compris les valeurs sémantiques attachées aux mots. Si des francophones utilisent l'anglais pour communiquer, tu ne dois pas être étonnée par la remotivation du mot An <Anglo-Saxon> due à l'influence de Fr <anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes)> et Fr <Anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes)>. Ça fait partie d'un processus naturel. Le français a fortement influencé l'anglais alors même qu'aucun francophone ne s'est exprimé dans cette langue pendant 900 ans. Maintenant que certains parlent anglais, tu dois te préparer à certaines innovations. La langue appartient à ceux qui s'en servent. C'est la vie !

Hi Sebastien (how DO I type the accent on the 'e' of your name?)
So you live with a canadian? well... ;) >>
Yeah, Canadian men are the best!! ;)

Many thanks for taking the time to educate me - your posts are really fascinating, and I understand the situation much better now. And your written English is absolutely fantastic.
I was in Montreal a couple of years ago - great place. It was funny, because I understand French quite well, but don't really speak it - in shops and restaurants people usually spoke to me in French, I answered in English, they continued in French....both parties using their native language and understanding each other!
greg, je crois que j'ai compris ton/votre, uhm, post. C'est la vie indeed!

(it is unfair for Latin Americans to call people from the US "Americans") >

I agree with that because all human beign born in America is an American not only an US person, in the same way all human beign born in Europe is an European, but I have to recognize that "United Statian" in English sounds extremely stupid it doesn't sound as decent as "Estadounidense" in Spanish thus I have to be more comprensive.

Greg,

"""And nothing is funnier than a Frenchman who doesn't know what he's talking about.LOL!"""


Absolument d'accord, suffit d'écouter les écossais qui ont remanipuler l'anglais en lui offrant un vocabulaire plus riche.

greg,


C'est une erreur bizarre,

"""Candy : toute langue évolue, y compris les valeurs sémantiques attachées aux mots. Si des francophones utilisent l'anglais pour communiquer, tu ne dois pas être étonnée par la remotivation du mot An <Anglo-Saxon> due à l'influence de Fr <anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes)> et Fr <Anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes)>. Ça fait partie d'un processus naturel. Le français a fortement influencé l'anglais alors même qu'aucun francophone ne s'est exprimé dans cette langue pendant 900 ans. Maintenant que certains parlent anglais, tu dois te préparer à certaines innovations. La langue appartient à ceux qui s'en servent. C'est la vie ! """


donc je disais : Absolument d'accord, suffit d'écouter les écossais qui ont remanipuler l'anglais en lui offrant un vocabulaire plus riche.

j'ai honte! remanipuler = remanipulé