Spanish is the most beautiful of all languages

<<How interesting! Portuguese is not Latin? It is what? German culture?>>

In the Americas (in the Spanish sense of the word), "Latin" usually refers to Latin America, or especially Hispano-America. To the vast majority of the American populace, one would never think of France or Italy as being a "Latin" country. You'll have to forgive the misunderstanding. 99% of Americans could not tell you what "Latin Europe" is, although Latin Europe is the cradle of civilization and culture throughout Latin America. As I have learned from other Europeans, I think of Latin countries as being foremost in Europe. Their daughter colonies in the Americas are Latin too, but only because they were Latinized by Europeans. In addition to that, you have the native influence of the countries in America, which detract from Latin culture, such as foods, dances, etc. I think of North America (Canada and the U.S.) as being offshoots, or American variants of Northern European culture, and of Latin America as being an American variant of southern European, or Latin culture.

<<As fro french being made of "hard consonant ending", it is true in the writen form, but the last consonant is generally not pronounced, so most words are vowel ending. curiously the french words which end with a vowel (genrally a "e") have sound consonant ending. >>

I'm not trying to bash on French. No need to get all defensive. It's just a fact, that French phonology is rather unique among the Latin language family, and generally features a lot of nasalization, unpronounced vowels, uvular R, and flat endings. Like compare Spanish "vive" and French "vive". In French, the word is pronounced the way an English speaker would pronounce it phonetically, with the silent 'e'. It's not that I don't like French. I'm going to study it in about a year or so. The lexicon is very close to Italian. It's just in spoken form where it diverges so greatly. And I think that is part of what makes French unique, and it is a good thing. But I still think, that if I didn't have the personal bias toward Spanish, that Italian would be my favorite. Italian is such a beautiful language, and in my eyes, the most pure.

<<In the Americas (in the Spanish sense of the word), "Latin" usually refers to Latin America, or especially Hispano-America>>

So you think a Brazilian would make this comment:

<<Portuguese people can cry, but we like Spanish language and Latin culture>>

A Brazilian that does not know her own culture is a Latin one inherited from the Portuguese?

Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and French are the world's most beautiful languages.However it is impossible to rank them, they are all beautiful and very nice to listen to.

LAA : « I'm not trying to bash on French. No need to get all defensive. »
Détrompe-toi. Personne ne te reproche une quelconque hostilité.
Ce que je relève, en revanche, c'est ton ignorance (ne le prends pas mal : nous sommes ***TOUS*** des ignorants —> c'est le commencement de la sagesse que de l'admettre et de comprendre pourquoi).
Il est évident que tu énonces des affirmations erronées. Rassure-toi : tout le monde le fait. Ça s'appelle des «erreurs», et les reconnaître est le plus sûr moyen de progresser. Il n'y a rien de honteux à avancer de cette manière.
Simplement, ne prends pas certaines remarques ***FACTUELLES*** pour des attaques perso : ça ralentirait ta progression.


LAA : « It's just a fact, that French phonology is rather unique among the Latin language family (...) »
Non, justement, c'est tout sauf un fait. Et d'ailleurs «rather unique» ne veut rien dire : ou c'est unique, ou ça ne l'est pas —> il ne peut y avoir de demi-mesure si cet adjecif a un sens.
Pour en revenir au français, cette langue partage des traits avec nombre de langues d'Oïl et d'Oc (y compris le catalan). Donc rien d'unique en vérité.
Ce qui est unique, c'est que tu n'es pas conscient de certains points communs entre les langues (et familles de langues) de l'Atlantique à la plaine du Pô et de la Manche aux Baléares.


LAA : « (...) nasalization (...) »
Français, portugais, picard, wallon, poitevin etc.
La pauvreté du système vocalique nasal du français moderne contraste singulièrement avec le portugais moderne et l'ancien français.


LAA : « (...) unpronounced vowels (...) »
Par définition une voyelle est prononcée puisque c'est un son.
Tu parles peut-être de voyelles ***GRAPHIQUES*** non prononcées ? Mais c'est le cas de l'espagnol aussi : <queso>, <guerra>, <adquirir> & <guitarra> où, contrairement au latin, le <u> n'est pas prononcé. Pareil pour l'italien : <cacciare>, <maggio>, <ascia> & <giungla> où le <i> ne se prononce pas.


LAA : « (...) uvular R (...) »
Le français, mais aussi le portugais.


LAA : « (...) flat endings (...) »
C'est exactement l'inverse ! Le français a tendance à "accentuer" la ***DERNIÈRE*** syllabe.


LAA : « In French, the word is pronounced the way an English speaker would pronounce it phonetically, with the silent 'e'. »
Diable ! Qu'est-ce que tu veux dire par là ??? As-tu ne serait-ce qu'un exemple à nous proposer ?

Spanish is indeed beautiful. Italian is more beautiful. It's sweeter, it's more elegant. The "e" endings at the end of verbs gives it a more melodic sound than Spanish. Example: to walk, Sp. "caminar", Ital. "camminare", to sleep, Sp. "dormir", Ital. "dormire". Also, the double consonants in Italian makes the language sound more pleasing.

Apam,
Truthfully, I might I actually like Italian more than Spanish, but I have an inherent cultural bias, so.... In any case, they are both beautiful languages, and definitely by far, my favorite. By the way they sound that is, while I love English because of its insanely rich vocabulary.

French is like Italian on paper, but when spoken, it sounds like Latin with a thick Celtic accent, and a Germanic uvular 'r'.

Portuguese again, although much like Spanish on paper, has a lot of nasal sounds, (Celtic) and "sh" sounds. Italian to me, is the most pure and conservative, while Spanish phonology is a close second.

Yes, in Brazil when we say LATIN it means Spanish speaking.

Eu curto a música latina = I like Spanish music (sung in Spanish)
like Shakira or Gloria Estefan

>>La pauvreté du système vocalique nasal du français moderne contraste singulièrement avec le portugais moderne et l'ancien français.

Salut Greg. C'est quoi ce que tu veux dire avec pauvreté? je trouve le système vocalique nasal du français moderne toute sauf pauvre, en fait très riche et complex!!! je voudrais te poser une question sur les voyelles nasales en français... combien de sons nasales y a-t-il en français?
Je croyais d'avant qu'il y avait un son pour voyelle nasal, mais dans la répresentation fonétique de cettes voyelles on trouve seulement de quatre signes, plus un pour le diphthonge "eun".... pourrais-tu me expliquer la situation des voyelles nasales en français?

C'est drôle, mais aucun français a réussi a m'expliquer cette chose (en parlant avec els, pas par écrit), mais je conneis parfaitment cette situation, fréquemment on peux pas (tristement) éxpliquer sa prope langue!!!..... :-)

Greg, as tu pu lire ce message au samedi?

Saludos,

Sergio : « C'est quoi ce que tu veux dire avec pauvreté? je trouve le système vocalique nasal du français moderne toute sauf pauvre, en fait très riche et complex!!! je voudrais te poser une question sur les voyelles nasales en français... combien de sons nasales y a-t-il en français? »

Salut Sergio !

En français "officiel" de France, il existe 4 nasales.
Les voici en X-Sampa (http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Annexe:Prononciation) : [Ã] <enfant>, [E~] <pain>, [Õ] <bonbon> & [9~] <un>.

Je disais que le système nasal français était pauvre parce que je basais cette affirmation sur quelques comparaisons :

1/ Géographique :
—> le québécois possède un système nasal différent du français de France
—> le français du sud possède le même système nasal que le français du nord, mais les réalisations sont différentes

2/ Diachronique :
—> l'ancien français possédait plus de nasales que le français moderne ; il possédait en outre des diphtongies & des triphtongues nasales

3/ Interlangues :
—> les systèmes portugais & brésilien sont plus riches que le système français



Le français passe pour *LA* langue nasale par excellence. Mais en fait ce privilège ne lui revient pas.


:)

<<Par définition une voyelle est prononcée puisque c'est un son.
Tu parles peut-être de voyelles ***GRAPHIQUES*** non prononcées ? Mais c'est le cas de l'espagnol aussi : , , & où, contrairement au latin, le n'est pas prononcé. Pareil pour l'italien : , , & où le ne se prononce pas.>>

Are you speaking of accent marks? In Spanish they do exist yes, but only so the reader knows which syllable to stress more than the others. The vowel would still be pronounced, regardless of the accent mark or not.

<<Français, portugais, picard, wallon, poitevin etc.
La pauvreté du système vocalique nasal du français moderne contraste singulièrement avec le portugais moderne et l'ancien français.>>

I didn't say that nasalization was not present in other Romance languages. It's just a feature which is unique to a select few, and which makes French sound very different from a language which it is closely related to, like Italian.

<<C'est exactement l'inverse ! Le français a tendance à "accentuer" la ***DERNIÈRE*** syllabe.>>

Perhaps you misunderstood. By flat endings, I'm speaking of the absence of many pronounced vowels at the ends of words, which is a common characteristic of French which sets it apart from other Latin languages like Spanish and Italian.

" Yes, in Brazil when we say LATIN it means Spanish speaking.
Eu curto a música latina = I like Spanish music (sung in Spanish)
like Shakira or Gloria Estefan "

this is tipically the kind of mediatic brainwash that I was thinking about in the other topic... Today most people think that "latin" means only Spanish speaking dut to the ignorance of mass medias, and also due to the US "ethnic"-grouping that had spread its misconceptions all over the world...


" By flat endings, I'm speaking of the absence of many pronounced vowels at the ends of words, which is a common characteristic of French which sets it apart from other Latin languages like Spanish and Italian. "

This is quite wrong. A lot of other latin languages had that characteristic (LATIN included), a lot of Italians accents doesn't pronouce the last vowel.
Catalan spelling has dropped most of vowels, and a lot of spelled vowels are not pronounced.

Said that once again, the final "e", in french are not pronounced only in northern accents. In the southern accents the last vowel is not silent at all.

This is very true, the only reason that South and Centrel America are known as Latin America is because there are two Latin languages spoken Portuguese and Spanish.

The countries that speak Spanish are known as Spanish America and in the case of Portuguese it is simply known as Brasil.

<<This is very true, the only reason that South and Centrel America are known as Latin America is because there are two Latin languages spoken Portuguese and Spanish.

The countries that speak Spanish are known as Spanish America and in the case of Portuguese it is simply known as Brasil.>>

Nope, not true. Latin America is known as such because its inhabitants speak Latin languages, and are of Latin culture. They are Roman Catholic, have a Latin mentality, speak a Romance language, etc. In some areas, such as parts of Mexico or Central America, the native influence is very strong, and some native languages are spoken, and the people are almost 100% native, etc. All throughout Latin America in many places, the cuisine has native roots, just as the U.S. has its own culinary traditions influenced by native foods available to its inhabitants. There also exists some unique customs of indigenous, or sometimes Afro roots in parts of Latin America, which again, detracts from Latin culture, and many of those things, Latin Americans are proud of. But mainstream culture and society throughout Hispano-America is a Hispanic one, and that is definantly Latin. The same applies to Luso-America, aka - Brazil.

The point is, Latin America is an offshoot of Latin European or southern European culture and civilization, as North America (Canada, US) is a product of Northern European, Anglo culture, while both maintain distinct differences and indigenous influences, along with considerable geographical distance from Latin Europe (and its influences) and Northern Europe or Britain respectively.