Romance words in English

English is mostly Latin or Romance, not Anglo-Saxon. Examples:

Star- derived from Latin "Stella"
Many- from Latin "Multi"
Arrow- from Latin "Arcus" (bow and arrow)
Night- from French "nuit"
Light- from Latin "Lux"
Mother- from Latin "Mater"
Six- from French "six"
Red- from Latin "rufus"
To catch- from Latin "captus"
Window- from Latin "Fenestra"

Many everyday words are derived from Latin (most of them). Why don't people re-classify the language?

English really can't be reclassified as a romance language because it maintains so many Germannic aspects, but it is true that the vocabulary has many Romance words. Does English differ enough from both Germannic languages and Romance languages to say that it belongs to neither? I ask because my knowledge of Spanish has opened doors to other Romance languages much more than my native English-speaking abilities have opened doors to other Germannic languages.

Why do we keep getting this nonsense? Just about every language in the world (perhaps with the exception of some isolated and little-known languages) has aquired words from other languages to a greater or lesser degree. Languages are classified by their *ancestry*, not by their borrowings from other languages. Every phenomenon that is characterised by descent with modification (i.e. evolution) is classified scientifically in this way, whether it be languages, plants or animals.

We simply have to consider the alternative to realise why this is. If we classified languages according to superficial characteristics such as their borrowings from other languages, then at some point a language could cease to belong to one family and suddenly become a member of another. This would obviously be absurd: English could be Germanic on a Monday and Romance on the Tuesday. That would be an arbitrary nonsense. It would be like classifying a whale together with fish simply because of its superficial characteristics, when everyone knows it shares a mammal ancestry.

Lastly, I think you overestimate the influence of Romance on English. Often a single Germanic word in English can have several Romance equivalents, but the Germanic word is usually by far the most commonly used.

My Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives the following information about the words you gave, and they do not all suggest a direct link with Latin at all (please note, I know I haven't represented some characters correctly, such as non-Latin alphabit characters and some diacritics):

STAR: Old English steorra = Old Frisian stêre, Old Saxon sterro, (Dutch ster), Old High German sterro :-West Germanic sterro, with parallel formation in Old High German sterno (German stern), Old Norse stjarna, Gothic stairnô :- Germanic sternôn; from Indo-European ster- represented by Latin stella. (Therefore, it would seem that the similarity between star and stella is due to the common ancestry of the Romance and Germanic languages from the ancient Indo-European language)

MANY: Old English manig, monig, later maenig, corresponding to Old Frisian man(i)ch, monich, menich, Old Saxon manag, Middle Dutch menech, Dutch menig, Old High German manag, menig (German manch), Old Norse mangr (Old Swedish mangher), Gothic manags :- Germanic managaz. (Again, not from Latin)

ARROW: Late Old English ar(e)we, Old Norse arw, related to Gothic arhwazna :- Indo-European arkw whence Latin arcus (Again, the Germanic and Romance words share a common ancestry in Indo-European, rather than English having imported the word from Latin)

NIGHT: Old English niht, Anglic naeht, neaht = Old Frisian, Middle Dutch nacht, Old Saxon, Old High German naht (Dutch, German nacht), Old Norse natt, nott, Gothic nahts :- Indo-European nokt, respresented also by Latin nox. (Again a common Indo-European ancestry)

LIGHT: Old English leoht, Anglic liht = Old Frisian liacht, Old Saxon, Old High German lioht (Dutch, German licht) :- West Germanic leuxta :- Indo-European leuktom from leuk-, louk-, luk- represented in Greek leukos (white) Latin lux (Another Indo-European word rather than a Romance borrowing)

MOTHER: Old English modor = Old Frisian, Old Saxon modar (Dutch moeder), Old High German muotar, (German mutter), Old Norse modir :- Germanic modar :- Indo-European mater whence also Latin mater, Sanskrit matr (Indo-European word rather than Romance borrowing)

SIX: Old English siex, syx, seox, sex = Old Frisian sex, Old Saxon, Old High German sehs (Dutch zes, German sechs), Old Norse sex, Gothic saihs :- Germanic seks varing with Indo-European sweksand represented by Latin sex.

RED: Old English read = Old Frisian rad, Old Saxon rod (Dutch rood), Old High German rot (German rot), Old Norse raudr, Gothic raups :- Germanic raudaz :- Indo-European roudhos Cf. Latin rufus, ruber (Ancient Indo-European word)

CATCH: Middle English cac(c)h, Anglo-French, Old Northern French cachier, variant of Old French chacier (modern chasser), Roman captiare, replaced captare.(Wow, one that came directly from Latin!)

WINDOW: Middle English windoze, Old Norse vindauga, from vindr (wind) (Nothing to do with Latin fenestra)

"The Latin / Romance influence on English is similar to the one which exists on Albanian"

I think Albanian is derived from more language than any other in the world. If you think English is a "mongrel" language, you should look at Albanian.

I think Adam is a asshole, what do you think about that?

Agree?

Vote for:

YES= Adam is fine guy a little bet stupid.

No= Adam is a fine guy a little bet stupid.

You can also do it from your cellular phone on 06 25 78 21 45

Y or N

Ed : « Lastly, I think you *overestimate* the *influence* of *Romance* on English. Often a *single* *Germanic* word in English can have *several* *Romance* *equivalents*, but the *Germanic* word is *usually* by far the most *commonly* *used*. »

In der Tat !

> Ed : « Lastly, I think you *overestimate* the *influence* of *Romance* on English. Often a *single* *Germanic* word in English can have *several* *Romance* *equivalents*, but the *Germanic* word is *usually* by far the most *commonly* *used*. »

This is rather a technical sentence as it is about linguistics, Romance words are less common in more everyday speech. Just think of the list of ten words supposedly meant to show the Romance influence on English (star, many, arrow, night, light, mother, six, red, catch and window) only one (catch) could be traced to a Romance rather than a common Indo-European origin.

<<Lastly, I think you overestimate the influence of Romance on English. Often a single Germanic word in English can have several Romance equivalents, but the Germanic word is usually by far the most commonly used. >>

That is true. One example I can think of is the word 'Help'. I can think of three latin derived equivalents 'Aid', 'Assist' and 'succour'. But 'Help' is by far the most common of all four words. The words of Latin wellspring seem to be used in more formal settings.

<<Window- from Latin "Fenestra" >>

How the hell can you get 'Window' from 'Fenestra'??

agree

Guest : « That is true. One example I can think of is the word 'Help'. I can think of three latin derived equivalents 'Aid', 'Assist' and 'succour'. But 'Help' is by far the most common of all four words. The words of Latin wellspring seem to be used in more formal settings. »

C'est tout à fait normal. Dans le cas de <help>, les étymons français tels que <aid>, <assist> et <succour> n'ont pas supplanté le vocable autochtone : ils se sont superposés et ont fini par se spécialiser, au moins partiellement.

Mais il existe de nombreux cas, tels que <air>, où c'est l'inverse qui s'set produit : VA <luft> / <lyft> a été relégué à des acceptions moins générales — mais VA <loft> & An <loft> sont peut-être issus du vieux norrois <lopt>.

> How the hell can you get 'Window' from 'Fenestra'??

Indeed. Interestingly though the Latin word *has* made its way into Germanic languages that are generally less influenced by Romance than English. For example the Afrikaans/Dutch for "window" is "venster" and the German is "Fenster".

<<Indeed. Interestingly though the Latin word *has* made its way into Germanic languages that are generally less influenced by Romance than English. For example the Afrikaans/Dutch for "window" is "venster" and the German is "Fenster". >>

Yes, that is one example of a word which became widespread in the other Germanic tongues but not in English, although English did have "Fenester" but it dropped out of use in the mid 16th century. I cannot say about other Germanic tongues because my knowledge of them is sketchy but I know of many other examples where German has adopted a romance word for everyday use where English hasn't. One word which does spring to mind is "Kaufen" which found its way into the German words for "buy", "sell" and "Shop" (Verb).

I happen to speak both a Romance language (Portuguese) and a Germanic language (Afrikaans) and what I can tell you is that English does fit in the middle of the two.
The reason isn´t only isolated words but the way you order your words.

The word 'window' is a bad example because if you compare it to Portuguese 'janela' and to Afrikaans 'venster' you could say it´s closer to Afrikaans but the French word for window is 'fenetre' so itr seems that the word 'window' does seem to be a very English word.

Ed > “Romance words are less common in more everyday speech”

Yes, In everyday speech and SLANG, and you’ll sound like a mentally deficient oligophren with a 2.057 words vocabulary , or like a 13 year old chav from Birmingham.

Guest > “That is true. One example I can think of is the word 'Help'. I can think of three latin derived equivalents 'Aid', 'Assist' and 'succour'. But 'Help' is by far the most common of all four words. The words of Latin wellspring seem to be used in more formal settings”

Never heard anyone saying - First HELP vs First AID. Did you?
You can speak at home , Mongolian or spanglish, using only Viking words if you want, but the GENERAL use of English ( which includes both formal and informal words) is predominately Latin.

greg > « Lastly, I think you *overestimate* the *influence* of *Romance* on English. Often a *single* *Germanic* word in English can have *several* *Romance* *equivalents*, but the *Germanic* word is *usually* by far the most *commonly* *used*. »


greg, let them be chavs and speak like chavs…