The English word for "Germany"

"Vat hapens if ei put "Ei leöve spam" in da lille box?"
Is the above a real foreign language, or are you just accenting English? The first part sounded like English with a Nintendo Italian accent, and the second half sounded like English with a Dutch accent.

<<I don't think that the word "Germany/Germanie" to call "Allemagne" is the best we could use, because, by definition "Germany/Germanie" would include all the germanic nations, England, netherlands and scandinavia included.
Even if I understand that it is the way it is used in English it is the equivalent if Italy was named under the name "latiny">>>

That is exactly what I think Guest. The Franks and the Anglo-Saxons, and the Scandavians were all Germans too. Germanic language and culture is spread throughout north-western Europe too, in countries outside of Germany like England, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Flanders, etc. Calling Germany, "Germany", is the same as calling Italy, "Latiny" and Italians, "Latins". This would then exclude all other nations of Latin language and culture, which would also include Spain, France, and Portugal.

<<I find it amusing that certain latins on the forum are sniffing at the English use of "Germany" when their own beloved/sacred parent language used "Germania".>>

At the time, "Germania" was an appropriate name for the land, because nearly all of the Germanic peoples/tribes, lived within the domain of Germania, a wide expanse of territory east of the Rhine. But since then, Germans spread all over the place, now being the dominant population in England, Netherlands, Flanders, etc.

<<I actually gave that a lot of thought, and I've come to the conclusion that it is very much possible, not that the Dutch speak the language of Charlemagne of course, but that charlemagne spoke an ancestor of Dutch.

You see, it's impossible that Charlemagne spoke Old Frankish, the language of the migrating Franks, because that language went extinct around the 6th century.

Extinct? No, not really. It did two things, it evolved into Old Low Frankish/ Old Dutch, and it influenced certain High German dialects.

The point is however , is the fact that Old Frankish was never attested. So we don't know for absolutely sure that was "High or Low". But then again ... High German languages don't turn low ... so maybe, Old Frankish was "Old Low Frankish/Old Dutch" from the start ... >>

The Franks settled in large numbers in northern France, and the low countries. The lands most densely settled by Franks are given away by the language spoken by modern locals. Flanders and the Netherlands speak a derivative of Franconian. Most likely, they are the direct descendants of the Franks. So, the Dutch and the Flemish are modern Franks. Northern Frenchmen and Walloon-Belgians would have some Frankish admixture as well, but they are not wholly Franks, but mainly descend from Gallic and Celtic/Latin hyrbrids. These people constituted the majority of the populations, and that is why, to this day, southern Belgium and northern France still speak Gallo-Romance languages. Farther south in modern France, the Franks settled only in very small numbers, and were basically just administrators of a government centered in northern France and the low countries. Most Frenchmen are Celtic/Latin hybrid, with the farther south you go, the more ethnically mediterranean people become, and the farther north, the more Celtic they become. It must be noted as well that Celtic people do not necessarily look like Germanic people. In most Celtic populations, the people are an inch to two inches shorter than Germanic populations, and there is a high rate of dark hair and or dark eyes among the Celtic people. You might have heard of of the "Dark Welsh" or the "Black Irish". As for the claim that the English are not ethnically related to other Germanic peoples, and only came to speak a Germanic language and adopt a Germanic culture because of elite dominance, I say that it is complete load of crap. Genetic studies show that in large part, the Welsh and the Irish are descendants of the original inhabitants of Britain. They are most closely related, genetically, to the Basques of Iberia and southern France. The English DNA however, is most strikingly distinct from that of Welsh and Irish DNA. Not coincedentally, the English DNA is closest to that of the people of Friesland, in the modern Netherlands, the ancient homeland of the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons. Interestingly, Frisian, is the closest linguistic neighbor to English. How about them apples? It is possible that there was a roughly equal number of Anglo-Saxons and native Celts, who then interbred, while the offspring of the subsequent generations adopted Germanic culture and language because of the greater influence exerted on them by the Anglos who had a higher economic standing. The Germanic (as in northern netherlands) genetic imput is strongest in eastern England, where the new Germanic arrivals would have first settled in large numbers. This would have been the site of their initial raids and plundering, and obviously, their first enclave in the Britian. Most of the settlers would have settled close to the sea, on the eastern coastline, thus settling their in greater numbers, and displacing the locals on a larger scale. South western England, seems to be a mix of native Briton and Anglo-Saxon genetic material. The land in between seems to be primarily Anglo-Saxon, with Celtic components. Once you cross the hilly border into Wales, however, an entirely different picture emerges. The people here, by no accident, for centuries retained a unique, Celtic language and culture. And sure enough, people west of Welsh/English border show a completely different genetic ancestry, which stands in sharp contrast to those on the English side of the border, and an even sharper contrast to those of eastern England.

"As for the claim that the English are not ethnically related to other Germanic peoples, and only came to speak a Germanic language and adopt a Germanic culture because of elite dominance, I say that it is complete load of crap. Genetic studies show that in large part,"

I wouldn't say that they are primarily Germanic in origin (except in west England) because I heard of several different Genetic studies which stated that the English as a whole do have a smaller germanic genetic imput than was gladly claimed in the past.
The English look more like their british brothers, at the most like an in-between of Germanic and Celtic. Just think of the english celebrities you know....The Beatles, Robbie Williams, Orlando Bloom, Keira Knightley, Tim Henman, the whole english Football team (except for Beckham), Oasis, and so on. I think you have to visit this country more often, and don't be deceived by those plenty young girls dying their hair.

Well, I will give you that. I wish you would reveal yourself Guest, so I know who I am talking to. But yes, as a rule, the English don't seem to have as high of a frequency for blonde hair as do, say the Dutch and the Danes. Natural Brunettes are much more common in England. And the height factor as well. Although traditionally, the English are generally speaking, taller than the Welsh and the Irish, they are still certainly a tad bit shorter than other Germanic people. I would say that there is a reasonable probability that English people, from regions like western England, or south Western England, are more of a hybrid people, while those of Eastern England are primarily, if not nearly 100% Germanic in origin. Have you been to the UK or do you live there, or what?

And don't forget that many of these famous celebs may be of Welsh, Irish, or Scottish origin. There is a few Celtic names in your list. It's quite common for these people to move to England and raise families in England. Their childrend would then be considered English, as would the subsequent generations.

LAA : « But yes, as a rule, the English don't seem to have as high of a frequency for blonde hair as do, say the Dutch and the Danes. »

On s'en fout totalement —> le thème est ici la ***LEXICOLOGIE***.

Brennus : merci d'intervenir —> tu ne t'es pas fait prier pour supprimer des sujets totalements linguistiques, alors pourquoi tolérer la logorrhée hors-sujet de LAA avec tant de complaisance ?

>>The English look more like their british brothers, at the most like an in-between of Germanic and Celtic. Just think of the english celebrities you know....The Beatles, Robbie Williams, Orlando Bloom, Keira Knightley, Tim Henman, the whole english Football team (except for Beckham), Oasis, and so on.<<

Isn't it a bit too simplistic to try to base heritage purely on appearance. Afterall, I don't recall seeing that many blonds in the German football team but does anyone doubt their Germanic heritage?

Greg, after seeing that the only thing Brennus said yesterday to LAA was "welcome back", I think that we have a "protegé" here.... as Tiffany once said: "Bravo Brennus, great way of moderating"... he even answers these postings of LAA about other matters than linguistics...

-Afterall, I don't recall seeing that many blonds in the German football team but does anyone doubt their Germanic heritage?-

Yes, and the same goes for the Dutch!

LAA : « Be careful not to overreact. »
Et toi, avant de croire obligé de commenter ma requête, réponds à la question que je t'ai posée par 3 fois déjà : pourquoi avoir supprimé à 2 reprises le sujet « Les traductions de <qui plus est> [kiplyze] » ?
Quant tu auras répondu à cette question, alors tu pourras te permettre ce genre de propos.


LAA : « LAA is not the only person on this forum who has digressed from talking about languages and linguistics from time to time. »
Assurément non. Mais c'est certainement la seule personne sur ce forum à benéficier d'autant de complaisance pour une avalanche de propos ***HORS-SUJET*** qui tournent le plus souvent autour de la biologie — et non des langues et de la linguistique.


LAA : « Finally, I know that LAA is capable of carrying on good language-related discussions when he wants to. »
Le mot "good" est à l'évidence le signe d'un optimisme déconcertant.

Well, as I am going to ignore Greg (who never really contributes to this board in no form other than complaints), I say we should take a vote if you would like. Who hear prefers the French/Spanish - "Allemagne"/"Alemania", or the English "Germany"? Simply write down your choice and we'll take a tally.

Brennus:

>Guest:

Re: "Greg, after seeing that the only thing Brennus said yesterday to LAA was "welcome back"..."

That is my privilege Guest. Thank you.

I don't care about your privileges, I was criticizing the fact that you don't seem to care about the FREQUENCY with which LAA gets off subject. I know he is not the only one, but he is for sure the one that does it most frequently.

>Finally, I know that LAA is capable of carrying on good language-related discussions when he wants to.
Ok, then he should "want to" more often....The linguistic topics posted by him, when he sticks to them are normally good polemic (even if this is often due to statements made by him out of lack of knowledge or experience, objectively said) and interestings comments come from other people answering him.

Brennus, this used to be a very good forum on languages. I am only asking you a little bit of effort to keep it as good as it was.

LAA:
You might want to include Þēodiscland/Tyskland/Tedesca/Tedescolandia/Dutchland in your survey.

I just don't like how people like Greg (who conviently post in English anonymously), can just whine all the time, and never contribute something positive of their own to this forum. When does Greg ever create a thread on Antimoon? When was the last time he did? In my abscence, there were nearly no new threads created here. You can think what you want about me, but I think I liven this board up considerably. All Greg does is complain, or belittle others in French. Very seldom does he actually discuss languages, initiate a conversation, contribute his own threads, or debate civily. The greater percentage of his posts feature personal attacks and complaints, and sarcasm, which do nothing to enrich this forum.

Frederick,
I was just going to compare the "Alemania vs. Germany" thing. But you don't have to confine yourself to that if you don't wish to.