QUESTION ABOUT LE PASSE SIMPLE
I have a question about le passe simple.
How common is it in conversational french.
when i use the passe compose it reminds me of one of the spanish tenses for example
yo he comido
tu as comido
ella a comido
ELLAS HAN COMIDO
ustedes han comido
vosotros habeis comido
nosotros hemos comido
THIS IS SO LIKE THE PASSE COMPOSE IN FRENCH, I WANT TO KNOW IF THE FRENCH USE THIS TENSE INSTEAD OF THE PASSE SIMPLE , IF IT IS EQUIVALENT TO THIS SPANISH TENSE ABOVE.
french
j'ai mange
tu as mange
nous avons manger
vous avez mange
ils ont mange
elles ont mange
il a mange
can some one help me because i read that this tense is rare to hear in conversational french, but seen in litterature.
je parlai nous parlâmes
tu parlas vous parlâtes
il / elle / on parla ils / elles parlèrent
this is an example, i read that is equivalent to the passe compose
I am not a speaker of French, but I believe in this regard French is like Italian (passato prossimo). So yes, I believe they use passé composé and it is equivalent.
However, be aware two auxillary verbs are used, usually avoir (to have), but also être (to be). This is also mirrored in Italian passato prossimo. I am not sure if this is true of the Spanish tense (pretérito perfecto).
I didn't finish that last sentence. It should read: I am not sure if this is true of the Spanish tense (pretérito perfecto) as I think the only auxillary verb used is haber.
Sorry about that.
why my post have been deleted ?
Hi Tiffany,
In Spanish there is only one auxiliar verb: haber (avere/avoir).
Hi Guest,
The passé simple is the symetrical equivalent of the Spanish pretérito indefinido: je parlai - yo hablé. Nevertheless, this tense is seldom used in the spoken language, and even in the unformal written language is mostly avoided, just being used when describing historical facts, for example.
For the rest of the cases when a past tense is required, passé composé is chosen. j'ai parlé - yo he hablado. This usage is nowadays quite common in Spain as well, whereas in Latinamerica the language is more conservative and the pretérito imperfecto is still of a daily usage. They are becoming interchangeable though, even if there are clear rules which determined when to use one and when to use the other one. I think this rules are relaxing now. As far as I know, the same has already occurred in French and Italian, where passé simple and passato remoto where of daily usage some time ago.
Sergio,
Does Spanish then have two verbs that mean "to have." The common one is "tener", but is "haber" used anywhere but as an auxillary? Because both French and Italian use avoir and avere as common verbs too, yet I don't believe "haber" can be sued as a common verb. Of course, I may be wrong. Your Spanish is obviously vastly better than my own :)
Tiffany,
Yes, but I would see it the other way around, 'to have' means two different verbs in Spanish:
'To have' in the sense of having something the verb is 'tener' (Italian 'tenere' would mean 'sostener' in Spanish, so it's different here).
'To have' in its function as the auxiliary verb, the verb is 'haber'.
>yet I don't believe "haber" can be sued as a common verb.
What do you mean by that? was it a typo meaning 'used' instead of 'sued'?
If the answer is yes, then the respective answer is 'no'. In modern Spanish 'haber' is only used as the auxiliary (and in the construction 'there is/are'). In ancient Spanish it had both significances.
In Portuguese, they do have a common verb, both for possessive sense and auxiliary verb: ter (Sp. tener). Ex. tenho falado - he hablado vs. tenho uma casa - tengo una casa.
I am not 100% sure if they NEVER use Pt. 'haver' as an auxiliary.
Yes, it was a typo. Sorry about that, but glad to see you understood it anyway.
The evolution is interesting, especially Portuguese's and Spanish's divergent use of an auxiliary. I had always assume the usage was the same - that they would use their "haver" exclusively and only as an auxilliary. Do you know if "haver" is used as a regular verb?
Of course, I used to assume everything was the same with Spanish and Italian and it got me into trouble, so I really should have learned my lesson then!
Well, I'd rather wait to a Portuguese Friend, Gringo or Viriatum clarify if
1) there are other usages for 'haver'
2) one of them could be the same as in Spanish, meaning 'there is/are'
You know? for a Spanish speaker, Portuguese gives the false impression of confidence, because of their apparent similarities. When it comes to active usage of the language, one can be immediately surprised by the amount of things that work differently in both languages!!!... so for me, being able to speak and write Portuguese properly demands more effort and carefulness than to do that in other Romance languages, because I have always to keep an eye on the boundaries between both languages, without falling into speaking or writing 'portunhol' (which would be ok for informal conversation or practical use, but which otherwise would be an embarrasing performance for someone who claims to have a command of Pt)..... :-)
I had the same problem at the beginning with Spanish and Italian. I felt really proud of myself for getting over the differences. However, I forgot a lot of my Spanish in the transition, which I really regret. I have to think in Italian to speak Spanish now and I find that sad.
Doesn't "hay" mean 'there is/are'? Are you saying that it is related to "haber"? Sorry, I'm not sure I quite understand 2).
>Doesn't "hay" mean 'there is/are'? Are you saying that it is related to "haber"?
Yes. In Spanish it does. The expression 'there is/are' is the verb 'haber' in Spanish, obviously whit a defective conjugation:
-There is/are: hay
-There was/were: había, hubo
-There will be: habrá
-There would be: habría, haya, hubiera, hubiese
-There has/have been: ha habido
-There had been: había habido,
-There will have been: habrá habido
-There would have been: habría habido, haya habido, hubiera habido, hubiese habido
With exception of 'hay', the rest of the forms correspond to the standard forms of the conjugation of 'haber', just always in third person.
In Portuguese I am not sure.
" Of course, I used to assume everything was the same with Spanish and Italian and it got me into trouble, so I really should have learned my lesson then! "
Yes, that what a lot of people assume when they don't know those language (or at least one of them). In reality A lot of things (even outside of vocabulary) of French and Italian are not share by Spanish.