I would say that english is a very tricky language because english is my first and only language and it confuses me at times!
English is the hardest language to learn
LaLa : « However, I think English is the haredst language to learn because of all the "slang" people use today. ».
Mais ceci est loin d'être une exclusivité de l'anglais.
En français <t'es malade> peut signifier :
1 — souffres-tu d'une maladie ?
2 — te sens-tu mal ?
3 — t'es idiot ?
4 — tu souffres d'une maladie.
5 — tu te sens mal.
6 — t'es idiot.
7 — t'exagères !
(etc)
Mais ceci est loin d'être une exclusivité de l'anglais.
En français <t'es malade> peut signifier :
1 — souffres-tu d'une maladie ?
2 — te sens-tu mal ?
3 — t'es idiot ?
4 — tu souffres d'une maladie.
5 — tu te sens mal.
6 — t'es idiot.
7 — t'exagères !
(etc)
Sorry greg, I don't speak french. Please Translate. i can pick out only a few words. =]
Nevermind greg. i got it all. But, seriously, try to see it from my perspective. To you greg- :P =]
U know english is the hardest language to learn because ..... so many words sound the same yet spelt differently ... Ex.(where, ware , wear), like come on, or ( too, to , two) like Duh..... Think aboput it ,,, it is the only language i speak ,,,, i am canadian
U know english is the hardest language to learn because ..... so many words sound the same yet spelt differently ... Ex.(where, ware , wear), like come on, or ( too, to , two) like Duh..... Think about it ,,, it is the only language i speak ,,,, i am canadian ,, n proud of it
Ok, after reading this (very) long thread, and after trying to stay out as much as I possibly could, I have a few personal points...
Besides "style" questions, PLuto´s English would always be considered awkward, at least; and no native speaker would ever say the contrary. The only possibility, as I see, for that mess being called "native-like" is, and I most heartly hope has not happened: people having a go on Pluto. What is sad, if really happened, but characteristical of many people. Making fun of foreigner´s mistakes is hideous!
I personally would consider Pluto to be making fun of us, not really meaning any of his sentences. Although he has taken this for too long without any retreating. In this case, he might well be (or not) a true native.
Anyways, he may well teach people English - or help them with theirs -, specially if those people have lower knowledge of the English language than his. In that case they would access a next level of "English Erroneousness", and possibly rotten their English away, for good... :g
That for non-natives. Natives would never take lessons from him, unless they seriously intended to act like Borat.
Actually,, WE might well be dealing with Borat himself!! :D
Besides "style" questions, PLuto´s English would always be considered awkward, at least; and no native speaker would ever say the contrary. The only possibility, as I see, for that mess being called "native-like" is, and I most heartly hope has not happened: people having a go on Pluto. What is sad, if really happened, but characteristical of many people. Making fun of foreigner´s mistakes is hideous!
I personally would consider Pluto to be making fun of us, not really meaning any of his sentences. Although he has taken this for too long without any retreating. In this case, he might well be (or not) a true native.
Anyways, he may well teach people English - or help them with theirs -, specially if those people have lower knowledge of the English language than his. In that case they would access a next level of "English Erroneousness", and possibly rotten their English away, for good... :g
That for non-natives. Natives would never take lessons from him, unless they seriously intended to act like Borat.
Actually,, WE might well be dealing with Borat himself!! :D
Antonio
I thought I had made it clear in the end that it was indeed all a joke. A naughty one I know, but I couldn't resist. I hope it didn't cause offence, it was not intended to make fun of people's mistakes. Although I did incorporate some of the typical mistakes I hear non-native speakers making, I have never heard anyone speak English anywhere near as badly as that. In fact I don't think it would actually be possible (Actually I couldn't quite believe anyone took it seriously after the first couple of posts). On the other hand I admit I was having a little dig at those non-native speakers, who are nowhere near having mastered English and still make lots of errors, yet insist that they know that it is an easy language to learn.
I thought I had made it clear in the end that it was indeed all a joke. A naughty one I know, but I couldn't resist. I hope it didn't cause offence, it was not intended to make fun of people's mistakes. Although I did incorporate some of the typical mistakes I hear non-native speakers making, I have never heard anyone speak English anywhere near as badly as that. In fact I don't think it would actually be possible (Actually I couldn't quite believe anyone took it seriously after the first couple of posts). On the other hand I admit I was having a little dig at those non-native speakers, who are nowhere near having mastered English and still make lots of errors, yet insist that they know that it is an easy language to learn.
<<who are nowhere near having mastered English and still make lots of errors, yet insist that they know that it is an easy language to learn.>>
In my experience non native English speakers many times tend to master the language better than their native English speaking counterparts, roots for thought aye!
In my experience non native English speakers many times tend to master the language better than their native English speaking counterparts, roots for thought aye!
English the hardest language? Nah.
It's believed that Navajo is the hardest language on the Earth to learn. The limited amount of research I've done on Navajo supports this conclusion.
It's believed that Navajo is the hardest language on the Earth to learn. The limited amount of research I've done on Navajo supports this conclusion.
>>In my experience non native English speakers many times tend to master the language better than their native English speaking counterparts, roots for thought aye! <<
Some non-native speakers do speak English very well of course, usually those who have spent time in an English-speaking country. However I would have thought that the vast majority of people around the world who learn English as a second language, reach a level where they are sufficiently able to communicate, but still do not have anything like a native command of the language. It is often people with this kind of level of English, who proclaim it an easy language, whereas they should perhaps reserve their judgement until they have reached a higher level.
But anyway what do you mean by 'mastering a language better than native speakers'? Do you mean that they do not make some of the grammatical 'mistakes' that native speakers do? If that is the case, I think you will find plenty of people on these boards who will argue that, if native speakers commonly say something in a certain way, it is not incorrect, even if the grammar books might state otherwise. Besides even those non-native speakers who speak English extremely well, are likely at least occasionally to say something that no native speaker would say, so I wouldn't agree that that many non-native speakers truly master it better than native speakers.
Some non-native speakers do speak English very well of course, usually those who have spent time in an English-speaking country. However I would have thought that the vast majority of people around the world who learn English as a second language, reach a level where they are sufficiently able to communicate, but still do not have anything like a native command of the language. It is often people with this kind of level of English, who proclaim it an easy language, whereas they should perhaps reserve their judgement until they have reached a higher level.
But anyway what do you mean by 'mastering a language better than native speakers'? Do you mean that they do not make some of the grammatical 'mistakes' that native speakers do? If that is the case, I think you will find plenty of people on these boards who will argue that, if native speakers commonly say something in a certain way, it is not incorrect, even if the grammar books might state otherwise. Besides even those non-native speakers who speak English extremely well, are likely at least occasionally to say something that no native speaker would say, so I wouldn't agree that that many non-native speakers truly master it better than native speakers.
One thing that should be pointed out is that even if a non-native speaker of a given language may be "better" in the prescriptive sense at speaking some standard variety of the language than many native speakers, they may very well be less competent than said native speakers with respect to dialects outside of said standard variety (not just with respect to the obvious case of speaking in said dialects but also with respect to understanding said dialects). A non-native speaker without exposure to dialects outside whatever standard variety they have been taught is likely to trip over differences between said dialects and said standard.
PLuto:
Sorry, didn´t see it was a joke earlier lol Okay, lack of attention.
What, in my opinion, guest and the others are trying to say with the statement "better then natives" is actually referring to "best usage, in accord with the most well accepted grammarians/grammars" And in that case I don´t believe there are many. Resuming to standard english, being AE or BB (RP), having only some of its differences mentioned.
As to me, I used to do some posting late in 2003/4 here, so recalling my identity, I´m british and live in Rio de Janeiro. what gives me a different view of the language. Indeed, ESL students tend to always add some other comment on the "ease" and lack of complexity of English. Some times I get amused at how well some can speak. The opposite happens too. English has a vast history and is certainly not easy. In fact, having 8 years of English at school (even as ESL) and completly immersed into english songs, films etc is by itself a form of acquiring a language "in one´s blood", and believing to know more of the language than one really does becomes easy!
In a certain way, natives will never be wrong or even ungrammatical. They may well be "less literate" though... Let that not be confused with "being worse" than a standartised foreigner in their own language!
And if someone jumps out of their chairs yelling and cursing this post for Ali G or any other caricatural figure speaking "we is/you is", one has just missed the whole thing: a language is something very personal and intimate to its nation, is a living organism, evolves, lends and borrows, only changing when its natives allow and wish so.
A foreigner my think his English is better than the native, but what he may fail to conclude is that the English he learned may be long outdated and people may no longer express themselves that way.
Pluto, I agree when you say that even those with a very good lang skill will some time sound nonnative, and as some brit also told me "you don´t have accent,,, but you sound different".
Have better grammar, yes. Speak/know better the English language, never.
Sorry, didn´t see it was a joke earlier lol Okay, lack of attention.
What, in my opinion, guest and the others are trying to say with the statement "better then natives" is actually referring to "best usage, in accord with the most well accepted grammarians/grammars" And in that case I don´t believe there are many. Resuming to standard english, being AE or BB (RP), having only some of its differences mentioned.
As to me, I used to do some posting late in 2003/4 here, so recalling my identity, I´m british and live in Rio de Janeiro. what gives me a different view of the language. Indeed, ESL students tend to always add some other comment on the "ease" and lack of complexity of English. Some times I get amused at how well some can speak. The opposite happens too. English has a vast history and is certainly not easy. In fact, having 8 years of English at school (even as ESL) and completly immersed into english songs, films etc is by itself a form of acquiring a language "in one´s blood", and believing to know more of the language than one really does becomes easy!
In a certain way, natives will never be wrong or even ungrammatical. They may well be "less literate" though... Let that not be confused with "being worse" than a standartised foreigner in their own language!
And if someone jumps out of their chairs yelling and cursing this post for Ali G or any other caricatural figure speaking "we is/you is", one has just missed the whole thing: a language is something very personal and intimate to its nation, is a living organism, evolves, lends and borrows, only changing when its natives allow and wish so.
A foreigner my think his English is better than the native, but what he may fail to conclude is that the English he learned may be long outdated and people may no longer express themselves that way.
Pluto, I agree when you say that even those with a very good lang skill will some time sound nonnative, and as some brit also told me "you don´t have accent,,, but you sound different".
Have better grammar, yes. Speak/know better the English language, never.