I don't think it matters what Greeks look like. This is a red herring. Calliope herself admitted that there is admixture, and that all cultures are an admixture. What matters is that Greek culture and language has survived continuous and unabated. Sure, both the culture and language have taken "loans" from neighboring cultures, but Greek culture still calls upon both its ancient and Byzantine heritage. And of course, Greek and Turkish are structurally and morphologically very different languages despite any loan words, just as English is not French despite the loans.
Why is greek such a funny language?
It really doesn't matter, Ryan how the Greeks or any other nation look like. The topic here was regarding the Greek language but majority of the people who posted here started to make comentaries about how the Greeks are looking. And at the end, they accused Calliope (and me, I guess) of having something against the arabs... and of being racist when they where the ones who mentioned DNA studies made on Greeks!?!
Let's hope that this confrontation finaly went to the end!
Have nice day!
Let's hope that this confrontation finaly went to the end!
Have nice day!
Ion,
You are a very, very, very messed up human being...probably you have way too many mirrors at your place...stop looking at them and you will get better, I promise!
You are a very, very, very messed up human being...probably you have way too many mirrors at your place...stop looking at them and you will get better, I promise!
Predrag,
The only thing you are doing here is making statements about people, how do the look, how do they mixed up with each other, who they are etc. And altough, that was not the topic here, it wouldn't bother anybody if they were at least healthy, real, true.
But they are not and you only do what you do because the only arguments you can bring into a discussion are the insults, persuasion, perversity, superficiality.
You called me a very, very, very messed up human being... What is that Predrag? That's the only argument you have against my postings here? You don't like me because I'm not supporting your stupid opinions about the Greeks? Come here informed, with a good baggage of information and contradict me but don't just rise the feast towards me. That's rude, my Serbian friend!
For imposing/expressing ideas, wishes, needs or rules we gave up the Stick hit solution and invented a new way of communication : the language. That's happened long, long, long time ago, Prdrag. What would you do to if you had been seeing me standing in front of you? Would you hit me with the feet and feasts? Why Predrag, because I didn't let you play as you wanted? Because I took away your toys? Wake up, before is not to late! Read you own history and contradict me if I'm wrong because I might be wrong, but prove it. Before you do that, I have to trust my studies and researches, the discoveries made by scientists, the ancient and not only documents, historical evidences and sources. Bring something new with you, proved , healthy and not propagandistic and I will be with you. I love to find out the truth if there is another one than I consider it today!!
You speak about me having many faces? I don't think that you ever understood what I was saying on this forum, no matter on which topic. You just don't have the level to understand that, and I accept it but don't deflate yourself here please your frustrations against me, or anybody else! Go in the wild and do what you know best, if you feel like that.
You were wearing the friendly, understanding and superior face while providing consolation to Boban but in a naive manere, as you were in kindergarten. You suffer on arguments and knowledge lack and you come here just for providing insults. You are just a novice in history, linguistics etc, but perspire trough all your skin pores, and respire trough your mouth and nose only hate. Hate against other Balkan nations. That's what you learned to do the best. Do it my friend, but dont't be surprise when you'll be left alone!
This is my last replica for you! I don't have anything to discuss with you because you don't have the "7 years from home", I hope you know what that means.
I feel very, very, very sorry for you!
take care of yourself!
The only thing you are doing here is making statements about people, how do the look, how do they mixed up with each other, who they are etc. And altough, that was not the topic here, it wouldn't bother anybody if they were at least healthy, real, true.
But they are not and you only do what you do because the only arguments you can bring into a discussion are the insults, persuasion, perversity, superficiality.
You called me a very, very, very messed up human being... What is that Predrag? That's the only argument you have against my postings here? You don't like me because I'm not supporting your stupid opinions about the Greeks? Come here informed, with a good baggage of information and contradict me but don't just rise the feast towards me. That's rude, my Serbian friend!
For imposing/expressing ideas, wishes, needs or rules we gave up the Stick hit solution and invented a new way of communication : the language. That's happened long, long, long time ago, Prdrag. What would you do to if you had been seeing me standing in front of you? Would you hit me with the feet and feasts? Why Predrag, because I didn't let you play as you wanted? Because I took away your toys? Wake up, before is not to late! Read you own history and contradict me if I'm wrong because I might be wrong, but prove it. Before you do that, I have to trust my studies and researches, the discoveries made by scientists, the ancient and not only documents, historical evidences and sources. Bring something new with you, proved , healthy and not propagandistic and I will be with you. I love to find out the truth if there is another one than I consider it today!!
You speak about me having many faces? I don't think that you ever understood what I was saying on this forum, no matter on which topic. You just don't have the level to understand that, and I accept it but don't deflate yourself here please your frustrations against me, or anybody else! Go in the wild and do what you know best, if you feel like that.
You were wearing the friendly, understanding and superior face while providing consolation to Boban but in a naive manere, as you were in kindergarten. You suffer on arguments and knowledge lack and you come here just for providing insults. You are just a novice in history, linguistics etc, but perspire trough all your skin pores, and respire trough your mouth and nose only hate. Hate against other Balkan nations. That's what you learned to do the best. Do it my friend, but dont't be surprise when you'll be left alone!
This is my last replica for you! I don't have anything to discuss with you because you don't have the "7 years from home", I hope you know what that means.
I feel very, very, very sorry for you!
take care of yourself!
I wonder why greeks are so angry at the way they look? I don't see any problem with that. I am originally from Colombia and as a hispanic my skin has a darker tone than Europeans. I have no problem with that. It is very true that greeks look much more like arabs or like they came from Afganistan, but this should not bother them them. Hey, it's just the tone of your skin and you can do nothing about it, so just forget it, don't worry. Just speak greek and it's all good.
Greeks in this website remind me of Michael Jackson with his complex of skin color and his plastic surgeries...do you greek guys feel like him too? Are we going to see millions of greeks flood our Emergency Rooms to get the much-wanted European light complexion?
I have a question (please don't get offended), just from curiosity. Is your dark complexion the reason why you greeks keep always hats or try to cover your face, so not to have any contact with the sun for fear of getting darker? It is only an observation I have made. I work with a greek woman, Sofika, and that's what she does all the time...
Greek language seems very hard to learn. I wonder who would even try it, because today it is useless, unless you are greek and need to do some shopping in Greece. Anyway, it looks that turkish would work the same too.
Greeks in this website remind me of Michael Jackson with his complex of skin color and his plastic surgeries...do you greek guys feel like him too? Are we going to see millions of greeks flood our Emergency Rooms to get the much-wanted European light complexion?
I have a question (please don't get offended), just from curiosity. Is your dark complexion the reason why you greeks keep always hats or try to cover your face, so not to have any contact with the sun for fear of getting darker? It is only an observation I have made. I work with a greek woman, Sofika, and that's what she does all the time...
Greek language seems very hard to learn. I wonder who would even try it, because today it is useless, unless you are greek and need to do some shopping in Greece. Anyway, it looks that turkish would work the same too.
@ Angelica
Why don't you bother to read what has been said before you comment? You would find that most of what you wrote was pointless, and that you are preaching to the choir.
I won't bother to comment on the ignorant assumptions you made; I will just point out that:
a) Wearing hats is very rare in Greece - exept when you are lying on the beach with the strong sun in your eyes, and
b) Sofika is not even a Greek name.
And since your story is incorrect on so many levels, I can't help but wondering how much of an "Angelica" you are, and whether you could even point out Colombia on a map, let alone be from there. Do you also happen to go by the name "Sotiris" on forums..?
Why don't you bother to read what has been said before you comment? You would find that most of what you wrote was pointless, and that you are preaching to the choir.
I won't bother to comment on the ignorant assumptions you made; I will just point out that:
a) Wearing hats is very rare in Greece - exept when you are lying on the beach with the strong sun in your eyes, and
b) Sofika is not even a Greek name.
And since your story is incorrect on so many levels, I can't help but wondering how much of an "Angelica" you are, and whether you could even point out Colombia on a map, let alone be from there. Do you also happen to go by the name "Sotiris" on forums..?
@Ryan
"I don't think it matters what Greeks look like. This is a red herring. Calliope herself admitted that there is admixture, and that all cultures are an admixture. What matters is that Greek culture and language has survived continuous and unabated. Sure, both the culture and language have taken "loans" from neighboring cultures, but Greek culture still calls upon both its ancient and Byzantine heritage. And of course, Greek and Turkish are structurally and morphologically very different languages despite any loan words, just as English is not French despite the loans."
Thank you. I was starting to think I was typing in Greek all this time, seeing that so many sock puppets pretended they didn't understand what I said.
"I don't think it matters what Greeks look like. This is a red herring. Calliope herself admitted that there is admixture, and that all cultures are an admixture. What matters is that Greek culture and language has survived continuous and unabated. Sure, both the culture and language have taken "loans" from neighboring cultures, but Greek culture still calls upon both its ancient and Byzantine heritage. And of course, Greek and Turkish are structurally and morphologically very different languages despite any loan words, just as English is not French despite the loans."
Thank you. I was starting to think I was typing in Greek all this time, seeing that so many sock puppets pretended they didn't understand what I said.
Now I wonder if there is a greek individual who doesn't offend other people so carelessly as they do in this forum? What kind of crowd they are...
At least we have the balls to post under our own names and not as numerous sock puppets to create impressions.
Calliope wrote:
"Sofika is not even a Greek name"
Calliope, wake up girl! Sofika is not a greek name, maybe bulgarian. There are no greeks left in Greece today. That is what the whole forum has been telling you for a long time now. Helloooooo...
"Sofika is not even a Greek name"
Calliope, wake up girl! Sofika is not a greek name, maybe bulgarian. There are no greeks left in Greece today. That is what the whole forum has been telling you for a long time now. Helloooooo...
@Boban
Sofika is not a name used in Greece. It could be Bulgarian, but I couldn't care less - it only shows "Angelica" was pulling it out of "her" ass.
You don't have the slightest idea about Greece or Greeks, so you are in no position to be telling me what they are and are not. Maybe you could overcome whatever personal problem you have with us and actually start *listening* to someone who has educated info to share. Or you could remain a fanatic ignorant, attacking a whole nation on internet forums under different nicknames.
Sofika is not a name used in Greece. It could be Bulgarian, but I couldn't care less - it only shows "Angelica" was pulling it out of "her" ass.
You don't have the slightest idea about Greece or Greeks, so you are in no position to be telling me what they are and are not. Maybe you could overcome whatever personal problem you have with us and actually start *listening* to someone who has educated info to share. Or you could remain a fanatic ignorant, attacking a whole nation on internet forums under different nicknames.
Ion said:
“Who are the Southern Slavs? Croatians were tribes of Iranian origin who transformed the Serbs into their Slavs (that's another reason why they cannot get along, not even today), and led them during migration time to Southern part of Europe. The Croatians have chosen the Northern part of the approximate former Yugoslavia territory (I'm using this as indicator to make it easier ,to figure out) while the Serbs have chosen the Southern side. Both these tribes have found here Albanians, people of Illyrian- Thracian origin.
In conclusion
- Hellenic Nation is a mixture of Thracian (possible)-Macedonian-Antic Greeks. (There are historians who considers that Macedonian, Geto-Dacian, Illyrian, Moesian, Costobocs, Carps, Dardans etc are all related and part of the huge Thracian nation.)
- Bulgarian Nation: A Slavic nation resulted from the assimilation by Slavic people of the Bulgars (Turkic tribes).
- Serbian Nation - the southern Slavs, slavered by Croatians and brought into this region by force. During the time they mixed themselves with Croatians
- Croatians - Iranian origin tribes who adopted the Slavs language and in some points, mixing with Serbs and not only.”
Dear Ion, you have some very good points when you shortly explain the origin of Slavs in the Balkans. There is a good understanding about this in the scientific community and you seem to have the right information in this case.
The question that remains unexplained is the very dark complexion of your skin and this must be well understood as a normal thing and no one here is having anything against it. The problem is that Greeks are surrounded by Slaves (light skin, brunets); Albanians (light skin, brunets, blondes); Turks (dark complexion); Africans – in the South (dark complexion). All the rest of the European Mediterranean nations have a lighter skin complexion than you guys (Italians, Spaniards, French, etc.) Your skin complexion looks closer to Arabs, to the best Turks. So, knowing your history, with over 500 years of Ottoman (Turkish) invasion, meaning 7 generations of Turkish males present in your country and not the Turks we know now, but wild, hungry, destructive, horny animals; also Arabian trade routes for millennia passed through Greece, etc, etc, and all these make the conclusions way to easy even for the simplest mind in the Universe. We should look closely even into that influx of Africans from the Northern Africa, but I personally doubt it had any effect.
So, knowing who you are, usually gives not the best taste expected, but will make life simpler in the long term. So, dear Greek friends, don’t be mad at the history or your dark skin color. Worry about the future. Don't answer with hate to all the love and understanding that people in this forum are expressing towards you.
I never thought of learning Greek. It is too hard and it would take me time I could use for better things, but anyway, it doesn’t sound or look funny to me, just hard and useless (for a non-Greek). I love Greek/Turkish/Albanian cuisine and people though. :-)
“Who are the Southern Slavs? Croatians were tribes of Iranian origin who transformed the Serbs into their Slavs (that's another reason why they cannot get along, not even today), and led them during migration time to Southern part of Europe. The Croatians have chosen the Northern part of the approximate former Yugoslavia territory (I'm using this as indicator to make it easier ,to figure out) while the Serbs have chosen the Southern side. Both these tribes have found here Albanians, people of Illyrian- Thracian origin.
In conclusion
- Hellenic Nation is a mixture of Thracian (possible)-Macedonian-Antic Greeks. (There are historians who considers that Macedonian, Geto-Dacian, Illyrian, Moesian, Costobocs, Carps, Dardans etc are all related and part of the huge Thracian nation.)
- Bulgarian Nation: A Slavic nation resulted from the assimilation by Slavic people of the Bulgars (Turkic tribes).
- Serbian Nation - the southern Slavs, slavered by Croatians and brought into this region by force. During the time they mixed themselves with Croatians
- Croatians - Iranian origin tribes who adopted the Slavs language and in some points, mixing with Serbs and not only.”
Dear Ion, you have some very good points when you shortly explain the origin of Slavs in the Balkans. There is a good understanding about this in the scientific community and you seem to have the right information in this case.
The question that remains unexplained is the very dark complexion of your skin and this must be well understood as a normal thing and no one here is having anything against it. The problem is that Greeks are surrounded by Slaves (light skin, brunets); Albanians (light skin, brunets, blondes); Turks (dark complexion); Africans – in the South (dark complexion). All the rest of the European Mediterranean nations have a lighter skin complexion than you guys (Italians, Spaniards, French, etc.) Your skin complexion looks closer to Arabs, to the best Turks. So, knowing your history, with over 500 years of Ottoman (Turkish) invasion, meaning 7 generations of Turkish males present in your country and not the Turks we know now, but wild, hungry, destructive, horny animals; also Arabian trade routes for millennia passed through Greece, etc, etc, and all these make the conclusions way to easy even for the simplest mind in the Universe. We should look closely even into that influx of Africans from the Northern Africa, but I personally doubt it had any effect.
So, knowing who you are, usually gives not the best taste expected, but will make life simpler in the long term. So, dear Greek friends, don’t be mad at the history or your dark skin color. Worry about the future. Don't answer with hate to all the love and understanding that people in this forum are expressing towards you.
I never thought of learning Greek. It is too hard and it would take me time I could use for better things, but anyway, it doesn’t sound or look funny to me, just hard and useless (for a non-Greek). I love Greek/Turkish/Albanian cuisine and people though. :-)
Vladimir take care of your white mind.....:)
Dark Albanians,too! in the South(Tosks)
Ghegs are the blonds
Dark Bulgarians too!(800.000 Turks in Bulgaria)
Dark Serbs,Bosnians,Sicilians,Southern Italians,Southern French
Portuguese are also brown and dark like Luis Figo
Dark Romanians,too(A lot of Gypsies)
Dark Southern Spaniards,too-Malaga
(The Arab people have conquered the Iberia for centuries)
Black-Arabian French(you can see their sport teams)
Dark Englishmen,dark Germans etc.....the world changes....
Dark Albanians,too! in the South(Tosks)
Ghegs are the blonds
Dark Bulgarians too!(800.000 Turks in Bulgaria)
Dark Serbs,Bosnians,Sicilians,Southern Italians,Southern French
Portuguese are also brown and dark like Luis Figo
Dark Romanians,too(A lot of Gypsies)
Dark Southern Spaniards,too-Malaga
(The Arab people have conquered the Iberia for centuries)
Black-Arabian French(you can see their sport teams)
Dark Englishmen,dark Germans etc.....the world changes....
Btw the original Turks are like Mongols.You can see the people
in Uzbekhistan and Turkmenistan etc..
If the Greeks had so many turkish blood,then they would lool like chinese....
in Uzbekhistan and Turkmenistan etc..
If the Greeks had so many turkish blood,then they would lool like chinese....
Angelica,
I'm a Romanian and not Greek. I made a big deal here because before everything the topic is not about the skin colour of Greeks ,the Greeks origin or something like that. It is about Greek language!
There are a lot of people like you who instead of referring to the topic, they started to speak about Greeks look, Greeks origin etc making all kind of stupid associations and relation. They went that far that at least one individual has impersonated himself as an authentic Greek and plaid a complaint about how much he suffers in the airports by being confused with the Arabs. (Arabs fellows, please don't take anything as an offence because it is nothing in my mind to play down you physical aspect - that's the last thing I will ever preoccupy me. The person as personality is what it always counts for me).
This behaviour and this way of expressing opinions on a linguistic forum, is a pure attack at people physical aspect. It is outrageous how some specimens can think about other people.
Angelica, you do just the same think... I don't believe you as being from Columbia ... you are just another offender of Greeks and nothing else. How many Afghan people did you see to come up with this association?
What do you know about the Afghans; do you really know who they ethnically are and what their characteristics are? If you had chosen to compare the Greeks with Columbians, I would have accepted your intervention as being honest, but you've chosen exactly what is the most tricky - Afghans, proving that you have no clue what the Afghan stereotype is!
As I said, I'm Romanian; I'm 1.86 m tall, dark blond with blue Eyes, (don't care if you believe me or not - I always wanted to be brunet) and I was always taken as either German or North American and I have been very often stopped in the airports for a deep inspection, as well. It didn't bother me at all, because it is important to have this inspection done. It would bother me if I had been let go without being checked out.
This naive strategy has been brought up here by those individuals to make a point in absence of real arguments: to prove that the Greeks are really looking as Arabs. (if so, what's the problem? Did you ever see the Italians from Naples?) I'm sure that the Greeks don't care about how they look because they know that they are very good looking people; very well educated and very warm and loving people. And they speak an unique (and not funny), Greek based language.
I intervened here sometimes more acid than I should because such rude and suburban remarks as the ones made by over 90% of the posters on this topic, I could simple not let free. I'm sick and tired listing to stupid and rude remarks in day by day life. I cannot assist with my hands in the pockets anymore how without any shame the real values are turned upside down by ignorance and primitivism of some ipokimeni of today.
It is just simple like that!
I'm a Romanian and not Greek. I made a big deal here because before everything the topic is not about the skin colour of Greeks ,the Greeks origin or something like that. It is about Greek language!
There are a lot of people like you who instead of referring to the topic, they started to speak about Greeks look, Greeks origin etc making all kind of stupid associations and relation. They went that far that at least one individual has impersonated himself as an authentic Greek and plaid a complaint about how much he suffers in the airports by being confused with the Arabs. (Arabs fellows, please don't take anything as an offence because it is nothing in my mind to play down you physical aspect - that's the last thing I will ever preoccupy me. The person as personality is what it always counts for me).
This behaviour and this way of expressing opinions on a linguistic forum, is a pure attack at people physical aspect. It is outrageous how some specimens can think about other people.
Angelica, you do just the same think... I don't believe you as being from Columbia ... you are just another offender of Greeks and nothing else. How many Afghan people did you see to come up with this association?
What do you know about the Afghans; do you really know who they ethnically are and what their characteristics are? If you had chosen to compare the Greeks with Columbians, I would have accepted your intervention as being honest, but you've chosen exactly what is the most tricky - Afghans, proving that you have no clue what the Afghan stereotype is!
As I said, I'm Romanian; I'm 1.86 m tall, dark blond with blue Eyes, (don't care if you believe me or not - I always wanted to be brunet) and I was always taken as either German or North American and I have been very often stopped in the airports for a deep inspection, as well. It didn't bother me at all, because it is important to have this inspection done. It would bother me if I had been let go without being checked out.
This naive strategy has been brought up here by those individuals to make a point in absence of real arguments: to prove that the Greeks are really looking as Arabs. (if so, what's the problem? Did you ever see the Italians from Naples?) I'm sure that the Greeks don't care about how they look because they know that they are very good looking people; very well educated and very warm and loving people. And they speak an unique (and not funny), Greek based language.
I intervened here sometimes more acid than I should because such rude and suburban remarks as the ones made by over 90% of the posters on this topic, I could simple not let free. I'm sick and tired listing to stupid and rude remarks in day by day life. I cannot assist with my hands in the pockets anymore how without any shame the real values are turned upside down by ignorance and primitivism of some ipokimeni of today.
It is just simple like that!