How "ll" (double L) is pronounced in Spanish?
Well, I'm from the Philippines and I've heard 3 variations used in my country and it all depends on the word:
1. Martillo - hammer. We would say the word as martilyo (pronouncing L)
2. Caballo - horse. We would say cabayo (without pronouncing L).
3. cigarillo - cigarette. I've heard my grandfather say cigarijo (pronouncing ll as j).
I have a Spanish-English dictionary and it says that in Northern Spain it is pronouced as how million is pronounced in English as example #1(basically pronouncing L), while in Latin American, and I know for sure in Mexico, it is pronounced as y as example#2.
I'm just curious if there are in fact 3 variations of pronounciations because when I asked my Spanish teacher in high school, he said he has never heard of pronouncing ll as example #1 althought my mom told me that that was how her Spanish teacher in the university taught them in the Philippines.
In my variety of Spanish, we pronounce the sequence "ll" as [S] or [Z], i.e. as the first consonant of English "show" or as the first consonant of English "genre". So "martillo" for me is [ma4"tiSo] "caballo" is [ka"BaSo] and cigarrillo is [siGa"riSo].
I'm aware of at least two other different pronunciations. One, a very traditional Castillian pronunciation (which can be found in some American varieties I think), is the palatal [L] (a bit like the italian "gl"). Other more widespread sound is plain [j] as in English "yes".
I'm curious as what you mean by saying that you pronounce "caballo" as "cabayo" and then cigarrillo as "cigarijo".
Since I don't know IPA I will try to give you an approximate. In Panama, the pronunciation would basically go from a "zh" sound as in the "sure" in the English word "leisure" to a very soft English "j". So "caballo" would be (ca-bah-zho) or "martillo" would be (mahr-tee-joh). This pronunciation I believe is typical of Caribbean pronunciation while the "y" or I think [j] in IPA is common in Mexico, and other Central American accents.
<< In my variety of Spanish, we pronounce the sequence "ll" as [S] or [Z], i.e. as the first consonant of English "show" or as the first consonant of English "genre". So "martillo" for me is [ma4"tiSo] "caballo" is [ka"BaSo] and cigarrillo is [siGa"riSo]. >>
That's strange. I've never heard of "ll" being pronounced as "s" or "z". Where are you from?
To the original poster: I haven't heard of "ll" being pronounced with an "L" sound, either. I've heard the phrase "'ll' as in 'million'" in other contexts, and I keep wondering why people say that because I don't know what distinguishes the "ll" in "million" from any other "L" sound in English.
In any case, the most common pronunciation in Spanish worldwide is to always pronounce "ll" as "y".
- Kef
Mostly, LL is pronounced as "Y" or "LY" or "J" depending in what Spanish speaking or Spanish background country you came from.
In the Philippines, there are still a few Spanish speakers including me. I pronounce LL as "LY" or "Y" or "J" , my Mexican friends pronounce it as "Y" or "J" .
Examples :
Chuchillo (Knife)
Pronunciation # 1 Ku-chil-yo (In Manila,we pronounce it like this)
Pronunciation # 2 Ku-chi-yo
Pronunciation # 3 Ku-chi-jo
Tornillo (Screw)
Pronunciation # 1 Tor-nil-yo (Manileño pronunciation)
Pronunciation # 2 Tor-ni-yo
Pronunciation # 3 Tor-ni-jo
furrykef: <<That's strange. I've never heard of "ll" being pronounced as "s" or "z". Where are you from? >>
No, not "s" or "z", [S] and [Z]. In X-sampa, [S] represents the 'sh' sound, as in "ship", while [Z] is like the 's' in "measure".
Okay, this is all very confusing, so let me try to get this straight.
From what I've gathered, there are several ways to pronounce the Castilian 'll':
[j] as in the 'y' in English "yes"
[L] as in the 'li' in English "million", and the 'gli' in Italian "famiglia"
[S] as in the 'sh' in English "ship"
[Z] as in the 's' in English "measure", and the 'j' in French "jour"
But am I correct in saying that another pronounciation is [dZ] as in the 'j' in English "jar"? I hear this a lot in Cuban Spanish.
So I guess what ElPinoy is saying is that in his country, martillo has [L], caballo has [j], while cigarillo has [dZ]. Right?
Thanks George, for clarifying that for furrykef. As I've said in other threads, it's really inconvenient to discuss pronunciation issues without some knowledge of phonetics and X-SAMPA. Things can become confusing very quickly.
For instance, I've no idea what the unknown author above means by the two different pronunciations "ku-chi-yo" and "ku-chi-jo". Is the first "y" meant to be IPA [j]? I suspect so. How about the second "j"? I imagine it's not Spanish [x]. Is it "j" as in English "job", i.e. [dZ]? If so, that is indeed an unusual pronunciation, one I'm not sure I've heard before.
And in response to furrykef, I'm from Uruguay.
<< No, not "s" or "z", [S] and [Z]. In X-sampa, [S] represents the 'sh' sound, as in "ship", while [Z] is like the 's' in "measure". >>
Sorry, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking (although I have to admit I'm not very familiar with either X-SAMPA or IPA). The [Z] sound wouldn't seem that unusual to me, but I still find the [S] sound curious.
I still wonder what people mean by the "ll" or "li" in "million".
- Kef
"So I guess what ElPinoy is saying is that in his country, martillo has [L], caballo has [j], while cigarillo has [dZ]. Right? "
That's right. Depending on the word, we use different variation of pronounciation of ll.
<<Well, I'm from the Philippines and I've heard 3 variations used in my country and it all depends on the word:
1. Martillo - hammer. We would say the word as martilyo (pronouncing L)
2. Caballo - horse. We would say cabayo (without pronouncing L).
3. cigarillo - cigarette. I've heard my grandfather say cigarijo (pronouncing ll as j).>>
I guess you're referring strictly to Philippine Spanish because in both Tagalog and Cebuano the spellings of these words reflect their pronunciations: martilyo, kabayo, and sigarilyo.
With the exception of kabayo, and perhaps a few others that I can't think of right now, the Spanish "ll" is usually given an "ly" pronunciation and is spelled to accordingly.
Examples: silya (silla), kutsilyo (cuchillo), mantikilya (mantequilla), baratilyo (baratillo), kalye (calle), tornilyo (tornillo), etc.
<<Examples: silya (silla), kutsilyo (cuchillo), mantikilya (mantequilla), baratilyo (baratillo), kalye (calle), tornilyo (tornillo), etc.>>
Those are the Tagalog spellings of the Spanish words.
-from Manila
I'm from Spain and I pronounce it the most traditional way: for me "y" and "ll" are different. "ll" is a palatalised "l": "caballo". In other Spanish regions (specially the south) they pronounce it "cabayo".
ElPinoy don't complicate your life, just forget any other variation, the standard way is like 'y' #2.
caballo
yo
olla
yeso
ayer
All can sound the same. No problem