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What accent do you really hate? and which one you love?
<<Saying that though I do like the Brooklyn and Boston accents from the states, they are quite smart>>
You just like 'em 'cause they're non-rhotic. They're both pretty UNprestigious in the US, ironically.
Any accent that is shrill or nasal: Southern U.S. when it's too shrill, Wisconsin (nasal!), suburbs of Boston (Baaaaastin!). I'll leave Jersey alone, because they get enough flak already, but the Italian American accent can also sometimes go to shrill/nasal for me (see the "steak" scene in Raging Bull, "Bringi'ouvaaa!"). It depends on the speaker, doesn't it? Many Italian Americans sound great!
I also get my feathers ruffled by a certain variation of "Queen's English" that I've observed involving the use of /w/ where most English speakers would use an /r/. I think it has something to do with the elitism of the people whom I've heard using it (a cockney speaker would be "widiculed" by these people for being on the "fwinge"). Ironically, the use of /w/ in place of /r/ is a typical indicator of a speech impediment in my country, where /r/ is pronounced. Is there a forum where we can talk about the accents we like? I have never heard anything as cool or as beautiful as an Italian who speaks English as a second language! Not that the Italians really need to have the flames of vanity fanned, but the incorporation of Italian stress patterns into English is intoxicating liguistic alchemy at its finest. I think all ESL should be taught by Italians!
You might be right there Vowely. Uriel hmmnnn I'm not sure mate, I do live apparently in an non rhotic area of England where as geographically speaking most of England are rhotic speakers (I think) and if we include Wales and Scotland I believe all are rhotic's???? (I'm not 100% on what exactly is a rhotic - pronunciation of the R's??). I do enjoy some of these accents for example the Cornish accent I love (although sadly it is dying out or rather mellowing out now) so I don't know. I certainly know next to nothing about linguistics so I cannot really say. Funnily enough Uriel this girl I work with from Chicago loves the Brooklyn accent yet you say it is considered unprestigious (by that I take it you mean unremarkable?? - sorry I am not the brightest spark!!). To me considering the size of the US there does not seem much variation in accent in comparison to this teeny country and that is excluding the Welsh and the Scots. Sorry mate I am assuming you are from the States for some reason - apologies if you are not. What would be considered a prestigious US accent then??. I imagine a prestigious (by that I would mean 'in high esteem') accent in England would still be the plummy upper-class public school accent that just does not really exist on the streets of England (apart from around Cambridgeshire I suppose) yet it is this accent that I noticed while travelling that most seem to equate with the English. Americans never believe I'm English and in fact in my experience Americans have had serious problems understanding me. I speak what the English call 'Estuary English'. It is basically Cockney sounding but to say that is sacrilege to authentic cockneys though!!. Anyway I am erm rambling so erm adios amigos.
<<(I'm not 100% on what exactly is a rhotic - pronunciation of the R's??).>>
Rhoticity is something that gets discussed here all the time. A rhotic speaker has no restrictions as to where /r/ can occur, be it at the beginning, middle or end of a word, before vowels, consonants or pauses. Thus, red is pronounced /red/ car is pronounced /kA:r/, corn is pronounced /kO:rn/ (the quality of the vowel may vary). Most US speakers do this, as well as Irish, Scottish and Canadian speakers. Note that the actual realization of the /r/ (retroflex, trill, tap) has nothing to do with rhoticity itself. A non-rhotic speaker only has /r/ before other vowel sounds. So, whereas red is still /red/, car in isolation is pronounced /kA:/ and corn is pronounced /kO:n/. For most non-rhotic speakers, /r/ can be inserted to link a word like car with a following word beginning with a vowel. So in the phrase "the car is blue" there is an /r/ which is pronounced in car. Most English speakers, as well as Australian, New Zealand and South African speakers do this. Some people cannot be readily classified as rhotic or non-rhotic. I think we have a contributor in this forum who pronounces an /r/ in car but not in corn.
<<Anyway I am erm rambling so erm adios amigos.>>
This is a perfect example of the fact that you are non-rhotic. The hesitation sound is represented in spelling by a rhotic speaker as "uhm". You use "erm" instead.
>> This is a perfect example of the fact that you are non-rhotic. The hesitation sound is represented in spelling by a rhotic speaker as "uhm". You use "erm" instead. <<
I've heard some rhotic speakers saying: "er" [r-].
Bloody hell Gabriel that is amazing!! It feels well odd to read someone actually dissecting my words and then actually categorising me into a certain category. Yes as far as I know I am as you say non rhotic and the points you make - make sense. Erm is used in my neck of the woods where as uhm ... I have only heard when I watch an American programme..actually thinking about it, I think I have heard that In England as well. Maybe Vowely has a point. Maybe here in England accents/pronunciations are becoming muddled. There is not a day that goes by that I do not hear an American song, watch an American programme or watch the news and hear an American voice so the American influence must be huge (and I do not watch much Telly!!) As Americans are more rhotic speakers (plus as I said before Geographically speaking England/Britain) Maybe the rhotic is getting mixed with the non rhotic??? Linguistics is fascinating.
I don't know that we have a "prestige" accent here but General American is the most common and will get you the least flack. By unprestigious, I mean that other accents start sounding annoying or uncultured to a significant part of the population (or at least generating some sort of emotional response, where Gen Am usually doesn't). Of course, this isn't to say that there aren't plenty of people who really like them, too, either because they sound different enought to be exotic, or have other associations for those individuals, etc. All a matter of personal choice. I've just noticed that a lot of British and Australian people don't like Gen Am, but do like our non-rhotic accents, and I figure it's because they sound slightly more like theirs (assuming they're non-rhotic, too, which most Aussies, but not all Brits are).
I can see how A Brooklyn accent (from what I have heard on the telly) could be considered uncultured (much like our own Cockney accent) but I think it sounds too cool. General American? wow it really exists then. If I was to put on an American accent it would be virtually the same as the next person who did the same. I imagine if two American's did an English accent - It would also sound the same. But I thought these were generalisations. Considering the size of the US I am surprised there would be a General accent. Do you think this is because of the influence of TV, Radio etc??. Here in England the influence by American media is starting too become apparent not in the accent but the Pronunciation of words (e.g. military traditionally (in my area anyway) would be pronounced MiliTREE where as it is becoming more common to say it more as it is written ala American's) also the actual words used (for example I heard my little sister who's 10 respond to something with the words 'I guess so' as opposed to 'I suppose so'). If British English is being influenced like this then I imagine American English has been greatly Influenced over the years. I imagine if I travelled The US 50 years ago I would encounter much more variation in dialects etc than if I was to go and travel around there now. A lot of people in this country do complain about the 'Americanisation' of British English but I suppose the American's could say the same about their own language. I never even thought about that before.
There is no Gen American. People don't speak the fricken thing. The only place it exists is in the Radio or TV. Ive got a midland accent, my husband a wi one. In between people have different accents and I've never heard one person that didn't have differences in their speech. It just doesnt happen. Stupid media influence.
Accents I love Urban vernacular (cuz it happens to white people to.) Texas and Bama. Irish New England (CT and MA only) Accents I hate California (Say "Like" one more dang time...) Scottish. Jersey. (It's just horrible.) English. (Always sounds like you're talkin down to someone)
>> I imagine if I travelled The US 50 years ago I would encounter much more variation in dialects etc than if I was to go and travel around there now <<
Nope. Actually the opposite. The dialects in America are growing stronger, and becoming more different from each other. For example, the Northern Cities vowel shift, and the California vowel shift, are moving the vowels in opposite directions. Neither existed 50 years ago. Example: General American vs NCVS vs California Vowel shift cot - cat - caught cat - kee-uht- cot ket - cut - cat etc.
It seems I have a lot to learn Vowely. I suppose what I am talking about is probably more vocabulary wise but yes I can see what your saying. Sakinah that is just it though that 'talking down to someone' accent hardly exists in England. I'm from Essex and trust me if you heard my voice, superiority is the last thing that would come to mind (more like common sounding ****) If you ever hear the Geordie (Newcastle and environs) or Scouse accent (Liverpool) your opinion of the English accent will be forever changed. You dislike the Scottish accent - come on Sean Connery!!! Again it does depend on which part of Scotland, some Scottish accents are very harsh, this would be more in the celtic and scots speaking areas (those are languages still spoken in certain parts there).
There are a lot of regional accents in the US, but many people even in those areas don't have them. I've met native southerners who speak with no trace of a southern accent, for instance. So you WILL hear Gen Am from sea to shining sea, often alongside other accents.
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