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Romanian a MADE up language
Luis Zalot :
« Sardinian: 8%;
Italian: 12%;
Spanish: 20%;
Romanian: 23.5%;
Occitan: 25%;
Portuguese: 31%;
French: 44%. »
Allez, encore une fois puisque ça semble nécessaire !!!...
Ces chiffres sont une tarte à la crème : ils reviennent périodiquement et illustrent parfaitement •••••••••L'IGNORANCE••••••••• de ceux qui les emploient sans savoir ce qu'ils signifient.
Voici le texte •••••••••INTÉGRAL••••••••• : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_romanes
« L'on peut donner ici les résultats d'une étude menée par M. Pei en 1949, qui a comparé le degré d'évolution de diverses langues par rapport à leur langue-mère ; pour les langues romanes les plus importantes, SI L'ON NE CONSIDÈRE •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLE TONIQUES•••••••••, l'on obtient, par rapport au latin, les coefficients d'évolution suivants :
sarde : 8 % ;
italien : 12 % ;
castillan : 20 % ;
roumain : 23,5 % ;
occitan : 25 % ;
portugais : 31 % ;
français : 44 %.
L'on voit ainsi facilement le degré variable de conservatisme des langues romanes, la plus proche du latin phonétiquement (EN NE CONSIDÉRANT •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLES TONIQUES•••••••••) étant le sarde, la plus éloignée le français. »
Luis Zalot i support your view.
Those ciphres are confirmed by other relevant accademics litterates as Bruni, Segre.
Someone even argued that the middle eve italian was Vulgar latin...
As you all can see from the veronese riddle.
The western branch of romance, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc was highly influenced by Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin. Many Latin words entered Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc as cultism from Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin that were not inherited.
Romanian is the only latin language not influenced by Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin. Many linguists consider Romanian as a mediator language and a guide when analysing western Romance languages, because Romanian has a raw base of ancient Latin with many classicisms, and no Medieval or Ecclesiastical Latin influence spread by the Catholicism. Therefore the Orthodoxy of Romania acted like a conservator against the Ecclesiastical Latin that was spread by the Catholic Church and the infamous inquisition.
As a result, Romanian stands out from the western group of romance, not only by conserving the grammar of classical Latin, but also with less traces of Latin cultism, injected by Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin and the tyranny of the catholic inquisition.
Orthodoxus says:
The western branch of romance, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc was highly influenced by Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin. Many Latin words entered Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc as cultism from Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin that were not inherited.
Yes but these word concerned only chrisitanity.
Orthodoxus; perhaps your observation holds truth, nevertheless you MUST not disregard that Romanian had it's good share of clean-sweeping within it's language, which was relatively of Slavic origin in the influence,vocabulary,phonology, etc. (Not of latin origin)
The Renaissance period was to re-introduced "classical latin words" Phonology,syntax etc back into the neo-latin tongues and to vulgar latin spoken at that time; which was in the 15centurty, Romanian re-structured it's language when? In the 19century. See the romance languages ONLY added words and stuff here and there. While the romanian language had to re-do it's language to point where a person a couple of decades ago wouldn't understand almost "nihilo" nothing. While on the contrary the romance languages would understand it's classical latin, because of reflection of their past. And them being wise.
Also I've noticed that the "ROMANIAN LANGUAGE" has a multitude of french origin words; some for example;
om,corp,cer,an,fapt,est,bun,bine,fiu (romanian)
homme,corps,ciel,an,fait,este,bon,bien,fils (french)
This is only a small portion of words that romanian has of french inspiration. It possess's a library of them.
It also has it's fair share with "italian" words like
notte,ora,luna,avere (italian)
noapte,orã,lunã,avea (romanian)
and let's NOT forget the "phonology" of their's is of that of Italian, respectively.
It ALSO, has it's "relatively" minuscule share from Sardinian words like
limba,deke & scire (sardinian)
limbă,zece & iskire (romanian)
It also lacks "retention" of syntax (HOW THE LANGUAGE IS WRITTEN, is that of Slavic).
{ And has a lot of false friends words like }
"anima" (which means "heart" in romanian) and all or most of the other romance languages and Classical & vulgar meant "soul"
s¸i (meaning, "and") not related to "et"
The Romanian word for "beautiful" is frumos,
from Latin formo(n)sus "shapely". (which some romance languages have this word, thus co-existing with the other word meaning the same "bella/o)
Romanian also has "slavic" words to refer to family & emotions, which all the other neo-latin (romance) languages perserved them abundantly.
http://antimoon.com/forum/t2275.htm
S.P.Q.R wrote;
Orthodoxus says:
The western branch of romance, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc was highly influenced by Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin. Many Latin words entered Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, etc as cultism from Medieval and Ecclesiastical Latin that were not inherited.
Yes but these word concerned only chrisitanity.
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Agreed.
However.
The romanian linguage sounds slavic. Hear the rythm of the speeech on some internet online radio.....
Orthodoxus : peux-tu nous apporter des preuves de la rémanence de la grammaire latine classique au sein de la grammaire roumaine ?
Romanian only adopted neologisms from French, not the basic vocabulary like, /om,corp,cer,an,fapt,est,bun,bine,fiu/ those where inherited from latin.
/Yes but these word concerned only chrisitanity/
Western Romance was heavily influenced by medieval latin, concerning every-day vocabulary, not only Ecclesiastical latin concerning religion.
In 1536 Desiderius Erasmus noted that that speakers from different countries were unable to understand each others Latin. The medieval latin suffered a mutation from the early vulgar Latin. Most differences between classical and medieval Latin are found in orthography.
-diphthong ae- was written as simply e - for example, puellae might be written puelle.
-h was lost, so that habere becomes abere,
-t might be written as c, especially between vowels
-single consonants were often doubled,
None of this influences entered Romanian.
It is also known that the tyranny of the catholic inquisition promoted the use of medieval Latin not only in Church documents but in all aspects of modern life. You should also know that Catholicism in the dark ages and the beginning of the Renaissance was a way of life , not just a religion. Scientific and religious text were kept in medieval latin only, translating them was considered a heretic act and punished with death “burned on the stick”
As a result the western romance languages were “blessed” by the monstrosities of the catholic inquisition and shaped accordingly with the Pope’s will. Starting from 1134 till 1834. A good 700 hundred years of learned Latin influence among the western romance. None of the catholic and medieval Latin influence occurred in Romanian, and the catholic inquisition never existed there. The geographical isolation and the orthodoxy of Romanian was indeed a good conservator , preserving the archaic Latin, conservative grammar and many classicisms that exist only in Romanian.
Orthodoxus : « The medieval latin suffered a mutation from the early vulgar Latin. »
Absolument ! En fait, le médiolatin n'est pas une mutation de l'orolatin tardif : c'est une reconstruction grammaticale, phonologique, syntaxique et lexicale à partir de l' ***IDÉ*** (erronée) que le pouvoir ecclésiastico-carolingien se faisait du sciptolatin classique — une langue morte (et enterrée depuis belle lurette).
Au fait, en quoi la grammaire roumaine est-elle identique voire très proche de la grammaire du scriptolatin classique ?
--diphthong ae- was written as simply e - for example, puellae might be written puelle.
-h was lost, so that habere becomes abere,
-t might be written as c, especially between vowels
-single consonants were often doubled,
I WROTE THIS---->>>>>
None of this influences entered Romanian. -single consonants were often doubled,
(ella) spanish (lei,ella) Italian (ea) romanian, there's always exceptions
Though Spanish & Portuguese RETAINED "h" (which in some cases & regions people still pronounced it) Words like "Haber" spanish "haver" in portuguese. Avea (romanian) hmm, romanian didn't retain; it so it did lose it.
-t might be written as c, especially between vowels, in spanish a lot of words are retain. While others sound like "thi/the/tha" (soften the 't') sound. Italian retained it aswell, in some cases.
Another interesting thing, spanish has perserved in some words "ct" which sometimes changes to "ch" for example; words like
Hecho,leche,dicho (perserved the "c' and aspirate the 't') in other cases in spanish it's perserved to "factor,lactea,dicto,dictator,productor,producto,lectura,lector,respecto etc."
{{{" Spanish is known to RETAIN it's second hand-words in their classical latin manner."}}} as mentioned above^
Also, spanish is the only one that retained "b" instead of "v" in words like; haber & caballo & debo etc. *classical* habere/caballus/debeo.
Furthermore the "sibilant s" which is a 'hiss-like-sound' when words end or begin with a "s" (in spanish) it's the "same" to that of Classical latin.
Also it's knowned that the "twirl" of the double 'rr' and *sometimes* singular 'r' in spanish was of that of Classical latin.
None of this influences entered Romanian.
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S.P.Q.R Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:41 am GMT
However.
The romanian linguage sounds slavic. Hear the rythm of the speeech on some internet online radio.....
I wrote;
I agree, sometimes it does sound italian; while other times it sounds differentiated, being slavic.
--diphthong ae- was written as simply e - for example, puellae might be written puelle.
-h was lost, so that habere becomes abere,
-t might be written as c, especially between vowels
-single consonants were often doubled,
(ella) spanish (lei,ella) Italian (ea) romanian, there's always exceptions
OH REALLY? hmmm well I got information for you>
Spanish & Portuguese RETAINED "h" (which in some cases & regions people still pronounced it) Words like "Haber" spanish "haver" in portuguese "habere" Classical-latin "Avea" (romanian) hmm, romanian didn't retain the "h"; so de facto it did lose it.
-t might be written as c, especially between vowels, in spanish a lot of words are retain. While others sound like "thi/the/tha" (soften the 't') sound. Italian retained it aswell, in some cases.
Words like;
Cuantia,valentia, etc.
Spanish also retained words like "voz,cruz,capaz, etc."
Classical latin; vox,crux,capax, etc.
vulgar latin; voce,(cis),cruce(cis),capace,(cis)
In castilian the "z" is a c, like of that of Classical latin;
Another interesting thing, spanish has perserved in some words "ct" which sometimes changes to "ch" for example; words like
Hecho,leche,dicho (perserved the "c' and aspirate the 't') in other cases in spanish it's perserved to "factor,lactea,dicto,dictator,productor,producto,lectura,lector,respecto etc."
{{{" Spanish is known to RETAIN it's second hand-words in their classical latin manner."}}} as mentioned above^
Also, spanish is the only one that retained "b" instead of "v" in words like; haber & caballo & debo etc. *classical* habere/caballus/debeo.
Furthermore the "sibilant s" which is a 'hiss-like-sound' when words end or begin with a "s" (in spanish) it's the "same" to that of Classical latin.
Also it's knowned that the "twirl" of the double 'rr' and *sometimes* singular 'r' in spanish was of that of Classical latin.
That is why, spanish's grammar is closely alike to that of Classical latin; hence vocabulary & Phonology aswell.
in conclusive,
All romance languages have more or less of Classical latin.
Ortodoxus
1) Medieval written latin was similiar to classical one except to phonology and new chrisitan vocabulary.
2) Romanian grammar is all, except that similiar to classical latin.
Because: Uses slavic construtcion of a subordinate with the subjunctive where C.L. and romance languages used an infinitive.
Shif of the nominal form of the verb, gerund isn't anymore a gerun as participle is only an adjective.
3)The language of culture of that time was latin. It was always written in italy to 700bc. to now, so it is clear that there isn't sweeping of culture but conserving of tradition
Examples
C. Latin italian
Tempore permittente tempo permettente. (Ablativus absolutus)
Dicto hoc detto ciò
hey i have a question!!!People from romania...are they latinas/os?????yesss orrr nooo????
i am just asking!!!:-D
S.P.Q.R : « Uses slavic construtcion of a subordinate with the subjunctive where C.L. and romance languages used an infinitive. »
Archifaux. Le français — une langue romane sans influence slave notable — peut utiliser le subjonctif avec certaines constructions subordonnées :
Fr <il faut que tu viennes>
Fr <fais en sorte que tu n'aies à rougir de tes actes>.
Pareil en latin classique :
La <cum id cupias, maneo> = Fr <je reste puisque tu le désires>
La <impero tibi ut exeas< = Fr <je t'ordonne de sortir>.
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