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Portuguese, the most successfull language in the world!
Spanish is the English name for ''castillian''
When we say ''Argentinian Spanish'' we think of Spanish language as spoken in Argentina (Argentinians call their language ''castellano'' and not ''español'' although their Spanish has nothing to do with Castilla)
THATS BECAUSE THE AMERICANS HAVE NO IDEA OF CASTILLIAN
THEY ARE USE TO HEARING SPANISH BY THE MEXICANS, WE NEED TO CONSIDER THAT MEXICANS ARE NOT SPANISH, MOST OF THEM ARE NATIVE OR INDIOS THAT CONSIDER THEMSELVES SPANISH. I GUESS LACK OF EDUCATION IN MEXICO IS THE PROBLEM CAUSE IN OTHER LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES, HISTORY IS KNOWN PRETTY WELL, OPPOSED TO MEXICO EX: IN MEXICO, THEY SAY MEXICO, AND PRONOUNCED MEJICO THE ENGLISH PRONOUNCE MEXICO WELL, BUT THE MEXICANS THINK THAT THE X MAKES THE SOUND OF A J HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE REAL LANGUAGE CALLED CASTILLAN AND EDUCATION
The letter X at one point, did make the sound that is now represented by the J in Spanish. Many words were changed to J (such as exemplo>ejemplo), that were not in other languages. But some words kept it. I believe it is still used in Galician (As in bioloxia, technoloxia). And the letter X is the International Phonetic Alphabet symbol for that sound, so in a way it is more correct than using a letter J.
However, I have NEVER heard a Mexican call himself a Spaniard. Ever. And I dont believe I ever will. Mexicans are proud of their heritage and they have great reason to. And I have never ran into a person so ignorant as to refer to a Mexican as a Spaniard. Perhaps there is a lack of education in indigenous communities, since they have removed themselves from mainstrem societies. But these indigenous communities usually have their own native language separate from Spanish. However the leves of education in Mexico are comparable, if not surpassing, the level of education in other Latinamerican countries. I'm assuming you're a Spanish nationalist Guest, if so, maybe it is your community that needs to better educate their people...
Don't tell me it is just the Mexicans. I learned from the the Cubans, who call their language español. Lack of education? I don't know, but I think that's how it has traditionally been there. I doubt the current level of education has anything to do with it. Another standard just came into being. How? That's history.
As for "Spanish" instead of "Castillian" - well, this is in English and "Spanish" it is. "Castillian" represents the Spanish spoken in Spain. Catalan, Basque, etc is not called Spanish, even in English. Say what you'd like in your language. We'll stick to ours - after all, we've never had a problem with it. If you want to look at a very parallel situation, look no further than "German", which is called "Deutsch" in Germany.
In Spain, x was actually originally pronounced like the english sh, before evolving to [x] (a kind of hard h), and now the modern [ks].
As I have said before, this is evident from the old spelling of Jerez de la Frontera as Xerez (sherez), from which is derived the English word for vino fino, Sherry, and also the pronunciation of words borrowed from Spanish by the French.
For virtually every Spanish speaker from Latinamerica I have talked about this item with, Español and Castellano are synonyms. I don't really understand this wish to divide this language into two....
Some are just used to saying "castellano", some "español" and some, both of them indistinctly..... there is no further complication.
It's not a division.
Spanish is a Nationility, Castillian is a Language. The Portuguese that is spoken in Portugal is different than the one in Brazil. In fact, due to all the deturpations and distortions of the Portuguese spoken it Brazil, it should be called Portuzilian or Brazilianese, something like that. It doesn't however mean that it is a different language altogether. Same for the Castillian spoken in Mexico, Argentina, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia and other. The fact is this: Scientificly the Language is Castillian. Period! And unlike what was posted above about Spanish being the English name for Castillian... It's obviously WRONG on the techincal, grammar and scientific levels, as the Castillian in the Castillian Language is Castellano. Therefore the English word for Castellano is Castillian. There cannot be an English word to refer to another English word that already translates a scientific and technical designation. Regarding Mexicans not refering to themselves as spanyards, it's obvious... They're Mexican! Brazilians don't refer to themselves as Portuguese. Americans don't refer to themselves as English. Liechtensteinians don't refer to themselves as German. One thing is the Language. The other thing is the Nationality. The Nationality is Spanish, the Language is Castillian. Simple, truthful, scientific, undeniable! Do you know the "fact" that a lie repeated over and over again becomes the "truth"? After over 70 years of Castillian being called and refered to as Spanish, people assume Spanish is a language when it's not. Another undeniable fact!
Argue with the dictionary then, because I speak the truth as I know it. If you want to call everyone but yourself a liar, sobeit. But vehemently pronouncing that it is wrongly called Spanish on a message board will change nothing. The facts remain:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Spanish&x=0&y=0 http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Castilian
"There is no worse blindman than the one who does not wish to see"
Be forever blinded by ignorance, see if I care!
3. a Romance language, the language of Spain, standard also in most of Latin America except Brazil.
Spain has many languages: People from bilingual areas might consider it offensive to call the language español, as that is the term that was chosen by Francisco Franco — during whose dictatorship the use of regional languages was discouraged— and because it connotes that Basque, Catalan and Galician are not languages of Spain. Some philologists use Castilian only when speaking of the language spoken in Castile during the Middle Ages, stating that it is preferable to use Spanish for its modern form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language
Castellano is the technical name for the language. Spanish is simply the common word for it, the one that most people refer to it as. I agree with Don Quixote, it can be taken offensively because it infers that the other languages of Spain aren't as 'Spanish' as Castillian. I don't think it matters, but then again... I don't speak any of the other languages of Spain.
And I agree with Viriatum. Castillian does not mean 'the Spanish spoken in Spain.' The language spoken on both sides of the Atlantic is Castillian. Saying that only the Spanish spoken in Spain is Castillian infers that the Spanish of Latinamerica and elsewhere is a different Spanish, such as Aragonese, which is untrue. I suppose it all depends on when and how you use the terms that it matters.
As I said before, you may all argue for your own truth. That does not change reality. Reality is that in the English-speaking sphere, Spanish is the name for the langauge. As for ignorance, this is not a matter of right vs wrong. This is a matter of reality - that indeed the English-speaking world sees Spanish as the language you want to be known as Castellano.
Another reality? People aren't going to change because of a campaign on a message board. Argue all you want. Realize though that this will hardly make a dent. There's idealistic, and then there's realistic. Reality was my truth when I told you what it meant in English. I'm not sure how you can argue with that. Look around, just about any thread on here will confirm that I am telling the truth. I'm not arguing what Spanish should or should not be, but rather, what it is in the real world. You can accept it, or be ignorant of reality. Viriatum, I'd advise you to be more careful when calling people ignorant. I only stated what Spanish is in reality. You are the one who chose to ignore reality.
There's no worse blindman than the one who does not wish to see!
Spanish is a Nationality. Castillian is a Language. This is NOT technical. This is scientific!!! 1+1=2 anywhere in the World. Or is it different in English? Is this Technical or Scientific? This is not idealistic or realistic. It's what it is... Scienfic Fact!!! Unless you wanna argue that Science is only Technical and not Scientific! But like you say in zoology circles... You can lead a camel to the water, but you sure cannot make him drink it! Cheers!
Wow - are you telling me that languages (and the terms within it) are like math? Math is universal if you haven't noticed. Its respresentation doesn't change. We have many many languages, with different words to describe different things in all of them. Indeed though, spoken math is also different country from country.
Ex "two times two equals four" in English, but "due per due uguale quattro" in Italian. If it helps you make the parallel, "Spanish is a language" in English and "Castellano es una idoma" in Spanish. Just like 2 x 2 = 4 in all countries, when we talk about about "Spanish" in English and "Castellano" in Spanish, we are talking about the the same thing, just with different words. However, language, unlike math, does not have a universal representation. However, if you would like to prove that the name of languages in different languages is scientific, as you claim, please do so. What is your name for the language we English-speakers call "German"? I know it isn't "deutsch" as the Germans call it.
Excuse me...
Spanish=Español Castillian=Castellano German=Deutsch Portuguese=Português French=Français Italian=Italiano Do you understand these translations? I could go on and on and on, but that's not necessary, I hope. If you do understand the above translations, then how can Spanish mean Castellano (Castillian). Is that a science based translation? I don't think so! |