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Lexical similarities between French-Spanish-Italian
"Many Spanish speaking Latin American countries prefer the 'ustedes' instead of 'tu'. Oh, and by the way, in Argentina they use 'vos' instead of 'tu'. Becha didn't know that. Of course not. "
You sir..are a idiot. Ustedes is plural of Usted. I bet you didn't know that, moron. In various countries VOS is used along side TU. Most countries are NOW using TU more then VOS. Vos is becoming another way to express yourself.
Ladino is thus far alive. And according to history, it'll survive for another century or two. WHY? OR HOW? I know this?? Well, Jews are VERY VERY conservative zealots and they wouldn't have it any other way. It's tradition.
Italian is still BEST. Portuguese is still disunified. Haha. Truth be told.
Yes, CaRLoS, I did know that 'ustedes' is that plural of 'usted'. Actually, it was a typo on my part, but it was too late to correct as I had already submitted my post. So don't get excited okay. You'll need to find something better than this to get your jollies. Ladino will slowly die out, not because I wish that; it was the language of some of my ancestors. The truth is that Ladino is only spoken by very few people in the world today. It may survive for maybe another 50 years or so, if even that, after that.........today, Spanish and Portuguese are the 'big guns' of the Romance languages.
In Argentina, 'vos' is used by most people there instead of 'tu' - I know many Argentinian people who confirm this fact. And Carlos, you really need to be concerned with your Italian obsession, honestly. Have you considered therapy, I mean a lot of people get it, even doctors and lawyers. So don't feel ashamed of getting some help. I do wish you the best.
<<I think not. There are at least 3 acknowledged varieties of Spanish, senor: Castilian Spanish, Mexican Spanish and Argentinian Spanish. But these are just labels to refer to the particular brand of
Spanish spoken in those countries. >>
There are NOT varieties of Spanish. The Spanish is only one, spoken with certain accent and particularities in every country that's all. NONE of those countries have a own grammar but local vocabulary and accent.
Fine then, the Spanish spoken in all of the Spanish speaking countries all have their own flavour, most notably in Argentina, Mexico, Cuba and Spain.
In all of the major bookstores there are Spanish language books for: Mexican Spanish, Castilian Spanish and Argentinian Spanish. Go see for yourself for proof. If the Spanish language was only one exactly uniform language, there wouldn't be language books published for the Mexican and Argentinian varieties. Still, it's one language, but as it is spoken in Mexico and Argentina is enough to consider them 'varieties' of the standard Castilian.
Castilian / Argetiniean / Mexican are all STILL unified and understand eachother. Unlike Euro-portuguese and Brazilian-portuguese. Tu (informal) is still used amongst latinamerica. In some places, like Argentina and Uruguay it's more used. But, tu is still used, in other places it's a regionalism.
<<In all of the major bookstores there are Spanish language books for: Mexican Spanish, Castilian Spanish and Argentinian Spanish. Go see for yourself for proof.>>
Ok, one more try. I'll put it this way: take any of those books and learn whatever they could teach you. Then go to Argentina or Mexico or Panama and talk. They will understand your grammar without trouble no matter the accent you use. You will be able to understand the newspapers, songs, books, TV shows, etc. An Argentinian doesn't have to 'switch' to the "local Spanish way" when he/she goes to Mexico and vice-versa.
Don't let the regionalisms confuse you, all languages have them and it's natural and normal but they don't transform the languages into something as serious as dialects or variations. Spanish has more than a set of ways to express things. In this geographic area they use that and in that they use this, that's all.
Espero me vos me entendás
Espero que tu me entiendas
Espero que usted me entienda
All the three ways mean exactly the same: "I hope you understand me" and they are
absolutely valid but each one is used in diferent countries. Even more than one at the same time.
Mr. Who, exactly. This is the point I'm trying to make. I'm the guy who wrote about the bookstores by the way. People make too much of word usage variations. In the United States, things can be said and written quite differently than in the UK, but they usually will understand each other, unless of course you have a hick from Mississippi trying to communicate with someone from Northern England, Scotland or something. Even Australians have their own unique way of saying things. And this is true of any major language. For example, my father is an educated Azorean who dialogues in writing over the internet every day with educated Brazilians, and they have absolutely no problems whatsoever understanding one another. He even voice chats with some Brazilians too, and again, no problems whatsoever, and this is the God's honest truth. Naturally, the level of intelligibility would drop off a little if slang and street talk was used, but this is true of any major world language. The thing is, generally in any language, the educated speakers would usually understand the non-educated speakers easier than the other way around. In other words, the educated speakers often have to dumb-down their lingo for their non-educated counterparts to understand them. Thoughts anyone??
soy un poco nuevo de esto pero tengo una pregunta sobre donde origin la lengua espano es una projecto para escuela y yo quedo saber donde viene la idioma y tu tienes info. sobre esto por fa escribir en la forum.
This is mainly for CaRLoS who refused to believe that 'vos' is standardly used in Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay even in the written form. But what I didn't know, is that 'vos' is also growing in usage in several Central American Countries as well. Please read:
Voseo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A movie poster for No sos vos, soy yo in Buenos Aires. The title means "It's not you, it's me."In Spanish, voseo is the use of the second person singular pronoun vos instead of tú; tú is often considered the standard, but vos is much more common in many dialects. Vos is used extensively as the primary spoken form of the second-person singular in various countries around Latin America, including Argentina, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Paraguay, and Uruguay but only in Argentina, Uruguay, and increasingly in Paraguay, is it also the standard written form. This phenomenon is also gradually taking place in Central America, where the most prestigious media are beginning to use the pronoun vos instead of tú; Nicaragua is a perfect example of this. In El Salvador, newspaper comics employ voseo, but it is hardly ever found in narrative articles outside of quotations. Increasingly, billboards and other advertising media are using voseo. In the dialect of Argentina and Uruguay (known as Rioplatense Spanish) vos is also the standard form for use in television media. Vos is present in other countries as a regionalism, for instance in the Maracucho Spanish of Zulia State, Venezuela (see Venezuelan Spanish), in Chiapas, a state in southern Mexico, and in various states in Colombia. It is also present in the Ladino dialect of Spanish, spoken by Sephardic Jews throughout Israel, Turkey, the Balkans, Morocco, Latin America and the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voseo
And this is for those who argue that there aren't Spanish language 'varieties'.
Local varieties
Andalusian Spanish
Argentine Spanish
Bolivian Spanish
Caliche
Central American Spanish
Chilean Spanish
Cuban Spanish
Dominican Spanish
Mexican Spanish
Panamanian Spanish
Peruvian Coast Spanish
Puerto Rican Spanish
Rioplatense Spanish
Spanish in the Philippines
Spanish in the United States
Venezuelan Spanish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language
Lexical similarity:
Italian/Spanish = 82%
French/Spanish = 75%
Portuguese/Spanish = 89%
Percentages higher than 85% usually indicate that the two languages being compared are likely to be dialects.
GUEST wrote:
"Percentages higher than 85% usually indicate that the two languages being compared are likely to be dialects."
I wrote:
Although, Italian and Spanish are still close in Lexical and Phonetics. Something Portuguese lacks. The same case can be applied to French and Italian, both are 89% in lexical, but, French phonetic structure is similar to Portuguese.
Latinboy wrote:
"And this is for those who argue that there aren't Spanish language 'varieties'."
I wrote:
Of course they're varieties. But very subtle. Mexican-spanish & Argentinean-spanish are the best known, due to their high-population and influence. The spanish I would consider a real "variant" or dialect, would definitely be Chilean-spanish, without an doubt.
Latinboy wrote:
"A movie poster for No sos vos, soy yo in Buenos Aires. The title means "It's not you, it's me."In Spanish, voseo is the use of the second person singular pronoun vos instead of tú; tú is often considered the standard, but vos is much more common in many dialects. Vos is used extensively as the primary spoken form of the second-person singular in various countries around Latin America, including Argentina, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Paraguay, and Uruguay but only in Argentina, Uruguay, and increasingly in Paraguay, is it also the standard written form. This phenomenon is also gradually taking place in Central America, where the most prestigious media are beginning to use the pronoun vos instead of tú; Nicaragua is a perfect example of this. In El Salvador, newspaper comics employ voseo, but it is hardly ever found in narrative articles outside of quotations. Increasingly, billboards and other advertising media are using voseo. In the dialect of Argentina and Uruguay (known as Rioplatense Spanish) vos is also the standard form for use in television media. Vos is present in other countries as a regionalism, for instance in the Maracucho Spanish of Zulia State, Venezuela (see Venezuelan Spanish), in Chiapas, a state in southern Mexico, and in various states in Colombia. It is also present in the Ladino dialect of Spanish, spoken by Sephardic Jews throughout Israel, Turkey, the Balkans, Morocco, Latin America and the United States."
I wrote:
Vos will never gain acceptance in the U.S, Mexico or Spain. And possibly the carribean. Vos is seen by some, as an argentinean attribute. the Vos usage is old-spanish, Tu was also used, but more intimately. In Venezula, marcaibo. They still use the archaic form of Castilian-spanish.
For example:
(Vos) podéis venir conmigo? (marcaibo, venezuela and archaic spanish)
(Tu) puedes venir conmigo? (standard)
(Vos) podés venir conmigo? (argentinean)
(Tu / Vos) podéi venir conmigo? (chilean)
My name is Alejandro, son of a Spanish mother and Portuguese father. I have lived in various towns and cities in both Spain and Portugal.
I (Aldvm) wrote:
"Although, Italian and Spanish are still close in Lexical and Phonetics. Something Portuguese lacks...." Portuguese does not lack the lexical closeness to Spanish...you are misguided there.
Aldvm, how can you say that Italian and Spanish are lexically closer at 82%, when Portuguese and Spanish are lexically very, very close at 89%? If you are talking about phonetics, then be clear that you don't bring lexicon into it - it confuses things.
Some of you keep don't seem to understand that in Spain, especially most of the regions closest to Portugal, particularly 'Asturias, Extramadura, Castilla-Leon, and Andalucia', Spanish and Portuguese are used interchangeably with relative ease, with great intelligibility. I leave out 'Galicia' because that's too obvious. Galicians and Portuguese can converse with one another in their own language and be perfectly understood, and I mean perfectly. I've seen Italians try to do it hundreds of times unsuccessfully.
When guest pointed out that:
Lexical similarity:
Italian/Spanish = 82%
French/Spanish = 75%
Portuguese/Spanish = 89%
"Percentages higher than 85% usually indicate that the two languages being compared are likely to be dialects." (Wikpedia)
I think he makes a very good point. In fact many linguistics scholars still argue that Portuguese and Spanish are dialects of the same language. I used to hear discussions often about this in the Spanish and Portuguese cafes when I lived in Spain and Portugal - the people have an awareness of this and believe it has some validity.
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