Lexical similarities between French-Spanish-Italian

I speak both French and Spanish.
I was born in Italy, and completed my entire course of studies in italt as a biochemist.
My lab was partially joint with Argentina (Rosario to be precise), and we hosted many argentinian biologists.

They arrived with no knowledge if italian but in two weeks we could understand each other particularly on scientific terms.
As we socialised we interacted perfectly.
There was almost no language barrier.

as far as French is concerned, it is true that the grammatical and morphological format are similar, but there is a strong pronunciation difference that makes French sound ,initially to italians, like a complete foreign language.

In my personal experience, French people, rarely speak languages of the neighbouring countries , attitude that could perhaps be attributed to patrioctic pride. (for example english is not a hit!).

Italians also don't speak much foreign languages, probably for different reasons.

As for the difficulty in learning, i would say that all the many Latin based languages are relatively difficult to acquire,as I personally found English and even spoken Japanese immensely easy in comparison.....(!)

To a certain extent , any Latin language will open a door to another Latin language. in this view, i suggest to chose what seems to be most pleasurable.
Consuelo Bettinelli

many italian words are versions of french

piu'/plus/more
trovare/trouver/to find
mangiare/manger/to eat
parlare/parler/to speak
cugino/cousin/cousin
ancora/encore/still/again
giorno/jour/day
bisogno/besoin/need
voglio/voudreis/i want
tutto/tout/all
cane/chienne/dog
fratello/frere/brother
sorella/soere/sister
i'll try and think of more

some french words are closer to spanish than italian, like:



english:she

french:elle

spanish:ella

(only one letter is changed. now look at italian:)

italian:lei
(spelling is alot more different than fr and sp)

english:he

french:il

spanish:`el

(once again one letter is changed)

italian:lui

(totally different once again)

>>>>

many italian words are versions of french

piu'/plus/more
trovare/trouver/to find
mangiare/manger/to eat
parlare/parler/to speak
cugino/cousin/cousin
ancora/encore/still/again
giorno/jour/day
bisogno/besoin/need
voglio/voudreis/i want
tutto/tout/all
cane/chienne/dog
fratello/frere/brother
sorella/soere/sister
i'll try and think of more

<<<<<

Okay. But many words describe (of Italian) would be understood by Spanish-speakers. Also verb-conjugation is similar and would be understood by Spanish-speakers.

PARLARE - Italian
io parlo = present
io parlava = imperfect
io parlai = preterite

io parlerò = future
io parlarerei = condicional
io parlassi = subjunctive - imperfect
io parli = subjunctive - present
etc.

HABLAR - Spanish
yo hablo = present
yo hablaba = imperfect
yo hablé = preterite

yo hablaré = future
yo hablaría = condicional
yo hablase / hablara = subjunctive - imperfect
yo hable = subjunctive - present
etc.


>My lab was partially joint with Argentina (Rosario to be precise), and we hosted many argentinian biologists. They arrived with no knowledge if italian but in two weeks we could understand each other particularly on scientific terms. As we socialised we interacted perfectly. There was almost no language barrier.<

Naturally. As Italian and Spanish are similar, moreover, Argentinean is very similar (i.e. phonologically etc.) to Italian that this was evitable to happen.


>To a certain extent , any Latin language will open a door to another Latin language. in this view, i suggest to chose what seems to be most pleasurable.<

Right. However take Modern-Greek as a language very similar to Spanish (preferably Castilian) when it comes to Phonetics. Few words here and there in Greek are intelligible to Spanish-speakers, however, some are false founds and sometims they're not.

Take example this video - obviously some words sound like spanish - but their meaning is different, but not all the time with other words ;)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JKSWCR92BBY

I add the French verb :

PARLER - French
je parle = present
je parlais = imperfect
je parlai = preterite

je parlerai = future
je parlerais = condicional
je parlasse = subjonctive-imperfect
je parle = subjonctive-present

The French conjugation is really understandable for a Spanish speaker or an Italian speaker.

some french words are closer to spanish than italian, like:



english:she

french:elle

>>
>>spanish:ella
>>
>>(only one letter is changed. now look at italian:)
>>
>>italian:lei
>>(spelling is alot more different than fr and sp)
>>
>>english:he
>>
>>french:il
>>
>>spanish:`el
>>
>>(once again one letter is changed)
>>
>>italian:lui
>>
>>(totally different once again)

I'm italian and this is not so true.

In italian language there are also "EGLI" and "ELLA".

"Egli" and "ella" are WEAK subject pronouns.

"Lui" and "lei" are always object pronouns and sometimes (...and JUST sometimes) they are STRONG subject pronouns.

"Egli" and "ella" are not so different from the french and spanish subject pronouns.

many italian words are versions of french

it's the CONTRARY i ever....

There are simply many strange grammatical rules and vocabulary in Italian that don't make sense in Spanish. How I know this? Because I'm a native Spanish from Madrid, although I been living in USA for a few years. When I went to Italy, I thought I could communicate no problem with the Italians...I was so wrong. Often, when it sounded like we were talking about the same thing, I found out embarrased that I was talking about something very different than they were.

Paco, your problem happens anytime two languages are so similar.

I felt your own sansation when I began to learn spanish and a little bit when I began to learn portuguese (now I speak both of them fluently)

Yes, italian has got many rules on pronouns and they are one of the hardest thing to learn for a foreigner... But I think they are the best part of my language: when you learn to use them properly, you can speak very fast without repetitions.

>>There are simply many strange grammatical rules and vocabulary in Italian that don't make sense in Spanish.<<

As many know already, Italian's closer to French in grammar then in Spanish. At times it's word by word with Spanish, however, there's lexicon and grammar structure differentibility that'll confuse you. For example: me ne vado = me voy etc. I recommend you learn a little italian first, therefore learn to compare formal words of Spanish to that of Italian's normal vocabulary. One more thing, try to compare phrases with those of Spanish and link them up as closely as possible. It really helps out.

>>When I went to Italy, I thought I could communicate no problem with the Italians...I was so wrong.<<

You need to know the gist (basics) of Italian first, prior to TRYING to communicate a delevop conversation - out of no knowledge- of Italian's 'somewhat' different grammar structure.

>>Often, when it sounded like we were talking about the same thing, I found out embarrased that I was talking about something very different than they were<<

Yes. It happens. for example: chiedo = quiero etc. By the way..."Paco" what region of Italy did you visit??

I was in Florence and Bologna, where supposedly they speak proper italian, but I couldn't understand them quite often, and they had the same problem with my Spanish which is excellent. You know what's funny...I spent a few weeks in Rio and Sao Paulo Brazil on holidays and never had any trouble communicating with those Portuguese speaking Brazilians, and we spoke to each other in our own languages.

>>I was in Florence and Bologna, where supposedly they speak proper italian, but I couldn't understand them quite often, and they had the same problem with my Spanish which is excellent.<<

The Roman accent is the most intelligible out all of them.

>>You know what's funny...I spent a few weeks in Rio and Sao Paulo Brazil on holidays and never had any trouble communicating with those Portuguese speaking Brazilians, and we spoke to each other in our own languages<<

Brazil is encompass around Spanish countries, while Italy is encompass with Germanic-speaking countries in the north. In addition I wouldn't doubt that you didn't have any trouble understanding the locals in Rio and Sao Paulo, as these cities are flooded with tourists - many from spanish-speaking countries. What also helps them out is that some locals (of brazil) improve their Spanish knowledge / pronunciation for this particular benefit; which is something Italy doesn't have. Lastly Italians focus on LEARNING English, German and Latin as their primary languages of interest (and an relatively few learn Spanish) because many think they would understand it fluently without prior knowledge.

Castellanum, you make some good points, thanks. But in Rio and Sao Paulo I tried to keep away from the tourist traps - often I went outside of those cities to get a good sense of the culture. In the tourist areas you never get a true sense of the country or its people. So what I mean is that the campesinos, understood me, and I understood them.

Secondly, what I have mostly heard from other Spanish speakers is that the roman accent is actually the least intelligible standard Italian accent of them all. Standard Italian is based on Florentine manner of speaking which is where I was - so go figure.

Many years ago I spent some time in Portugal too, and even there I had not trouble communicating with them despite their different accent. Generally, they seem to speak the way we Spanish speakers speak, and almost all our words seem to be the same. I have read most of the posts here, and judging from what other Spanish speakers have said, apparently Italian is not as easy for Spanish speakers to understand as many wrongly believe. The italians have trouble understaning us too.

>> So what I mean is that the campesinos, understood me, and I understood them.<<

Okay. Did you study Portuguese beforehand? Personally I can read and write Portuguese well, moreover I can't pronounced it natively. Italian on the other hand I understand it very well, however, at times I struggle with its grammar and few words.

For example>
http://youtube.com/watch?v=k4kruLZJ8ow

Nek - Ci sei tu = ITALIAN

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PwfMsa6sCuM

Raca Negra - Que pena = BRAZILIAN


>>Secondly, what I have mostly heard from other Spanish speakers is that the roman accent is actually the least intelligible standard Italian accent of them all. Standard Italian is based on Florentine manner of speaking which is where I was - so go figure.<<

Italian's foundation is based on Florentine & Sicilian. Probably one of the reasons why Standard ITALIAN is similar to Spanish is due to its Sicilian influence. According to "miei amici a Toscana" they have mentioned that the Roman pronunciation is the clearest one. But...everyone has their opinion.

>>Many years ago I spent some time in Portugal too, and even there I had not trouble communicating with them despite their different accent. Generally, they seem to speak the way we Spanish speakers speak, and almost all our words seem to be the same. I have read most of the posts here, and judging from what other Spanish speakers have said, apparently Italian is not as easy for Spanish speakers to understand as many wrongly believe. The italians have trouble understaning us too.<<<


Continental-portuguese is a bit trickier and confusing then Brazilian-portuguese, especially when it comes to grammar / pronoun positioning. It (continental portuguese) also 'seems' to be inflected with Slavic phomenics, however, both languages are thus far similar to be understood - as well with Spanish - depending on the individual. Again...Portugal is encompass by Spanish and Galician, while Italian
is encompass by Germanic tongues. Additionally many posts on here
are likely to be biased towards italian or portuguese. There's almost never a mutual respect.

p.ss. In the end it comes down to the individual and his knowledge of his mother tongue. I recommend any romance-speaker trying to understand another romance tongue to understand the gist of Latin and its evolution towards the Romance languages, use Latin as the source and as a comparison with the others. It really blossoms you in your OWN tongue and better equips you with the other romance languages.

Thanks for you thoughts Castiliano. No, I never studied Portuguese before.

I disagree with you that standard Italian is based also on Sicilian. Sicilian has always been thought of as different and corrupt form of Italian - it is even considered a separate language by many. Florentine accent is what standard Italian is based on though. The Rome accent is a mish-mash, not clear at all. I have heard it and it is even harder to understand.

Yes, everyone will have an opinion. Just so you know, I'm a native 'Madrileno' and I earned a masters degree in linguistics there. So I would like to think that my opinion has more than a moderate degree of legitimacy.

Yes, European Portuguese is a little trickier, but not much. The main reason why Portuguese and Castillians don't bother learnining each others language, is because without even studying it, we are already capable of communicating almost effortlessly. This is fact. Italian would be the next closest and then French, in terms of major Romance lanuguages.