What to call transsexuals?

<<No. Transsexuality is a form of Intersex, one where the brain, rather than other parts of the body, is affected. >>

No. No it isn't.

Don't you think that would have been the FIRST thing we would have considered?

Do you believe that you are smarter than we are?--no wonder you're so up in arms. But you have to consider that we already know all of the above...

hmmm

Whenever one projects him- or herself on another, they are only telling on themselves

No, I don't think it was the FIRST thing you would have considered. this stuff isn't exactly common knowledge, and in my lectures to medical students on the subject, I've found a profound degree of ignorance to be the norm.

Could you please do me a favour and enlighten me as to why you feel as you do?

I mean, please give the evidence, medical and scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals that you use to make your decision?

It has been my experience in the past that not many people know this stuff. Now obviously you do, as you've said. And you've discarded the evidence, having something better. Could you please tell me what it is?

As a matter of fact, I *am* a Rocket Scientist by the way. This means I'm smarter than most, but doesn't mean I'm smarter than you. Or better informed, the more I know, the more I realise how much there is I don't know. So I'm not being sarcastic when I ask for your evidence, I truly want to know. I change my ideas to match the facts, not ignore facts that don't match my pre-conceived notions.

Lacking that evidence, I'm afraid I'll have to discard what you say as un-evidenced opinion, with no worth or merit. That's the polite phrase. Being Australian, I would normally use more earthy language, something about bovine scatology.

<<No, I don't think it was the FIRST thing you would have considered. >>

hmmm, such a profound notion Yes, only geniuses may aspire to those heights.

<<this stuff isn't exactly common knowledge, and in my lectures to medical students on the subject, I've found a profound degree of ignorance to be the norm. >>

This knowledge is accessible to anyone who wants it. All one has to do is look.

<<Could you please do me a favour and enlighten me as to why you feel as you do? >>

Hey Now--why am *I* relegated to "feelings"?

<<I mean, please give the evidence, medical and scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals that you use to make your decision? >>

To some, evidence (--as in what you can pull out of your back pocket and show) is everything. Sad. True, it oftentimes is all we have.

<<It has been my experience in the past that not many people know this stuff. Now obviously you do, as you've said. And you've discarded the evidence, having something better. Could you please tell me what it is?
>>

So many 'judgements'...and have I been ruled against so quickly? Am I out? So soon?

Look, I don't know why you're all talking about these medical conditions. If you're going to go into a precise scientific analysis of someone's sex, that's fine, but what do you call them during the months or even years while you're carrying out experiments and writing research reports, 'he' or 'she'? The words in human language do not take into account people of this kind, and that is why the question arose in the first place. We have to mould the simple structure of the language to fit the much much more complex structure of reality.

You go by their wishes, and their presentation.

It's a matter of respect, and politeness.

This can be difficult when dealing with the minority of Intersexed people who identify neither as male nor female. Neologisms such as "Ze" have been used, but are not widely adopted.

When talking about transsexual people though, you don't ever have "a transsexual". You have a "transsexual man" or a "transsexual woman".

To say "how do you address a transsexual, as he or she?" is like saying "How do you address an an Indian/Chinese/American, as he or she?"

I have met women who I was convinced were transsexual, but turned out to be suffering from PCOS - Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome - a condition that can cause temporary masculinisation. So appearances can be deceptive.

Be polite, respect their wishes as expressed by their gender presentation, and you won't go wrong.

Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen, a big round of applause for Zoe Brain! And, as a "DES Son" I mean that in all seriousness.

There it is, the science that those on all sides wish to have on 'their side.' Sorry that it goes against those who believe it's all in the chromosomes and you are what the doctor identified on the day you were born always-and-forever-amen.

And now a word for Diethylstilbesterol. I whish I knew what the trade names were in its heyday when it was being passed out to prevent miscarriage and 'help make healthier babies.' Zoe found the data somewhere that it feminizes the brains of one in five -- I say again, 1 in 5, sons of mothers who took the drug when they were pregnant with them.

I was born with a penis, and to the thou-art-thus-so-forever-amen crowd, I'll always be male and am now a freak man-in-a-dress. Enjoy feeling better about yourself at my expense, all your protestations to the contrary aside.

I still have my penis -- well, most of it. I'm only missing most of the corpus cavernosum, the testes (atrophied from taking estrogen anyway,) and a few bits that didn't fit into the reconfiguration. All the rest of it, with the blood supply and nerve endings I've grown to know and love are still there but reconfigured into a functional, sensate female pudenda and vagina.

But it's still a penis, if that makes you feel better. And I do tell my potential intimate partners, even though it's risky and I get turned down a lot on that disclosure. I don't want to go through what the Australian trans-woman did after the cops told her boyfriend of 6 months (the boyfriend was a petty criminal, btw,) -ahem-, the cops told her boyfriend, "You're rootin' a bloke!" (haw-haw-haw)

Hazumu

Have you ever heard of cases where transsexual people have undergone surgery to the other sex only to find that they ended up changing their sexual orientation as a result?

I saw a program where a female, who was a lesbian, got the surgery to become a male, and then became attracted to males. So she ended up kinda like a homosexual man.

In this particular case, it would seem that she were disposed to being attracted to the same sex regardless of what that sex was, either male or female.

I found this to be very interesting.

Buddy, yes I have heard of such cases, lots of them in fact.
It appears to happen maybe 1 time in 3, maybe 1 time in 4.

It can come as quite a shock too, there may be no prior indication.

I was basically asexual, mildly lesbian before transition. Not attracted to boys at all. I'd tried to be, in my early teens, I thought that was a necessary part of being a girl, and it worried me that there was just nothing. Zero. zilch. It helped me accept that I was actually male though, I mean, I looked male, no matter how I thought or what my emotions were.

When I transitioned starting in May 2005, and was diagnosed as a "severely androgenised woman" based on biological tests, it took me some time to accept that I was actually lesbian, not straight. I'd just about gotten used to that in the following 6 months.

Then guys started to look... interesting. And smell even more interesting. Matters came to a head 8 months after transition, when a group of my students requested some extra tuition. One was an athlete, and was in jeans and vest, muscles bulging, and smelling of essence of testosterone. I could hardly keep my eyes off him, not so much attraction as fascination. It took all my efforts of concentration to get back to the Object Oriented Design problem at hand. I felt embarrassed, I was old enough to be his mother, but he was yummy. Seriously yummy.

There are various theories about this. One is that if it happens 5-8 months after removal of gonads - or, as in my case, they become dysfunctional - then it could be caused by neurotransmitters, as that's when Vassopressin leaves the receptors in the brain. I think though that the potential must have always existed, just masked by the severe psychic discomfort of having the wrong genitalia.

I've accepted that I'm straight, but it's not something I particularly want. Being lesbian is far safer. Seriously, there's a very significant danger of violence and even murder if you reveal your past to a prospective date, even before meeting. The love of my life, the woman I'm married to and the mother of my child (and didn't *that* take some medical help!) well, she's not lesbian either, and it's a shame that we're not attracted to each other, despite loving one another more deeply than most can understand.

<<<<But are chromosomes really the end-all-be-all for sex? >>

Yes. >>

I have a uterus and a vagina, but I also have XY chromosomes. I'm the least male man in the world, methinks.

By the way, I am one of the people Zoe mentioned a few posts back: <<This can be difficult when dealing with the minority of Intersexed people who identify neither as male nor female.>>

I'm not a man, despite my chromosomes, and I'm not a female, despite my vagina. I'm fine with being referred to as one of either (I can't expect anything else form a ridiculously binary world), but inside I know I do not identify with either gender.

<<I'm not a man, despite my chromosomes, and I'm not a female, despite my vagina. I'm fine with being referred to as one of either (I can't expect anything else form a ridiculously binary world), but inside I know I do not identify with either gender. >>

Yes, you are truly an intersexed individual.

You must admit though, that truly intersexed cases like yours are not the majority of cases: the majority of people are either male or female (but not all, as you have helped us to see : ) They do occur for various reasons, like chimerism, or what have you.

Do you ever feel like transsexual individuals are using cases like yours in an attempt to justify their condition, i.e. a "transgenderedism of the mind"?

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way?

My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either.

Oh well I am not one of those people; I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought. What do you think? Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.

"What to call transsexuals?"

Whatever you want to call them I say. This is the essence of a free society.

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