What to call transsexuals?

I'm sorry to say this but we are in the year 2008, and I am extremely appalled by the close-minded people in this forum.

YOU CALL A MALE-TO-FEMALE TRANSSEXUAL "HE", AND YOU CALL A FEMALE-TO-MALE TRANSSEXUAL "SHE".

Some of you might never understand how a transsexual feels, but please be considerate enough to not refer to living humans as "it", for the sake of your own reputation.

Oops! I meant the opposite:

YOU CALL A MALE-TO-FEMALE TRANSSEXUAL "SHE", AND YOU CALL A FEMALE-TO-MALE TRANSSEXUAL "HE".

OK, I concur. One who goes over to being a woman is a she and one that goes over to being a man is a he

Changing sex is a violation of God's will. God urges that people be satisfied with what fate brings them. But I will not condemn transsexuals for this reason - God will deal with them, with wrath or affection, I do not know - it is up to Him.

Then, would it be a violation of God's will if we refer to male-to-female as she and female-to-male as he?

Just call them 'transsexuals' then if you can't make up your mind....


I was talking to a transsexual.... The transsexual [ie, he/she] said...
Yesterday I met a transsexual... The transsexual [he/she] was kind.
Whose book is this? It's that transsexual's [his/her] book.
When will the group of transsexuals [group of guys/girls] arrive...

<<Uriel your quip was uncalled for really, especially if you want to be taken as an authoritative medical worker>>

I have never called myself an "authoritative medical worker". I may work in a hospital, and before that at a veterinary hospital, but my basic knowledge of biology comes from taking a lot of classes in college and reading up on it whenever I get a chance. I work in a managerial position, not as a clinician. But you can't help but pick up a few things in this work environment, especially if you take an interest, as I do. But anything I know about the biology of sex and gender I picked up long before I worked here -- I paid attention in school. This is really just common layman knowledge, not even past the undergrad level!

I also am not always nice. Nor do I apologize for that.


<<Good points, I suppose. Still, why the fact that they have these problems should we call them he/she in the first place? I mean, he can't force me to call him she when I think it is more right to call him he, can he?

I mean, flat out, he's male, not female, problems with his brain notwithstanding. >>

I would say that your choice of pronoun is really telling us more about you than about the transsexual, at that point. Because what you are really doing is using the pronoun to convey your disapproval. It's about what you think he or she "should" be. And that's really not your call, but theirs -- unless you're their doctor. Gender is a social construct, and how we react to people of a given gender is completely social. If somebody looks and acts female, you will treat them as a woman. If they look and act male, you will respond to them as a man. You can't help it. We had a female-to-male tranny in our hospital, and to all outward appearances he was an ordinary middle-aged man with a bald spot and a goatee and a deep voice. You would never have known unless you had read his medical record. And even after reading about his mastectomies and his hysterectomy, I still couldn't even picture him as the woman he must have originally been, much less call him "ma'am" in the cafeteria line. It was just impossible to think of him as a "she" -- he didn't look or act like one at all. I mean, we've all seen crossdressers and drag queens who aren't pulling it off very well and look completely ludicrous, but this was a whole different situation.

And you know, not all people are "flat out male or female". There are people who have chromosomal defects, like Turner's syndrome and Klinefelter's syndrome. Turner's syndrome people have a single X chromosome. They look outwardly female -- mainly because that's sort of the default sex -- but they don't usually have a uterus or ovaries, and often don't even have a functional vagina. They need hormone therapy to go through puberty, never ovulate or have periods, and often need to have a vaginia surgically constructed so that they can at least have sex with a future partner. These are things a tranny would also have to go through, are they not? Yet this is a defect these people are born with. We call them "she" and they usually are raised as girls, but in reality, they are not true XX females anymore than they are XY males. Everyone on the planet has an X chromosome -- had they gotten a second sex chromosome they could have gone either way. But they were the product of either a defective egg or a defective sperm, and they would have no real secondary sex characteristics without medical intervention.

Uriel, no one is talking about people who suffer medical conditions. Those people are not common anyway and are completely inconsequential when it comes to discussing what pronouns people will use. To people who don't work in hospitals, these people do not exist and thus they're not going to influence our choice of pronouns (no offence to them, it is an unfortunate condition and I hope they are able to live normal lives).

<<,Uriel, no one is talking about people who suffer medical conditions. >>

Right. I think this thread strayed off the original point due to a heated discussion.

I thought this was about linguistics, and pronouns and such.

God is a transexual and wants everybody becomes a transexual. Those who remain unchanged will go to the hell.

"I have never called myself an "authoritative medical worker". "

No, but you clearly made it a point to state such, if only for the purpose of trying to garner confidence from others in your views.

And yes, you did not relay any information that many of us on this forum do not already know or have access to ourselves. I doubt very seriously that any of us on this forum are medical experts enough to be discussing our opinions about transgenderism--which coincidentally this thread is not even about. Thanks Uriel.

<<God is a transexual and wants everybody becomes a transexual. Those who remain unchanged will go to the hell. >>

Actually, according to Christian doctrine, God is Ambi-sexual (Both male and female in qualities)

When God made Man (Adam) he made him in his own image. This image-state was PRIOR to the formation of Eve, who was later taken out of Adam's side. But originally, Even was *IN* Adam.

This Adam (with Eve still inside him) is the ur-view of God.

There are many other references in the Bible that point to ambi-gender with God, like God suckling (having breats), showing both male and female personality traits (like compassion, mercy, fury, warriorhood, etc)

something to think about.
but I don't think God is a transsexual : \
just my opinion

<<No, but you clearly made it a point to state such, if only for the purpose of trying to garner confidence from others in your views.>>

I did?

In their company, you would refer to a male-to-female as "she" and vic versa... However, biologically the person is still a male (or the vic versa, female). From a medical standpoint, it is COSMETIC surgery. You don't want to go out of your way to be offensive to someone, you should be sensitive to the way they perceive themselves (just as, hopefully, you would to anyone else), but at the same time it is important to know that it is purely cosmetic. Yes, they can take hormones, but once they stop, the effects stop.

One should refer to them as the gender they perceive themselves, but understand in the case of a medical emergency, etc. that it is important to note the individual's biological gender (as well as, naturally, the fact that they have had major surgery and take hormones, although I gather that would be discovered while the attending doctor takes the individual's medical history).

Skippy, OK, but the person really is a male still. If the person is not truly female, then why do we play his game? We shouldn't be giving in to mental disorders.